In thinking 30 free hours won't be available to the majority of us

[backtowork2015]

My ds aged 3 is in private nursery, I've asked the nursey manager and they have no information on how this may be implemented at present.
I have spoken to the council the nursery is in anc they say they are waiting for central government guidance.
I spoke to my council (neighbouring town) and asked for a list of nurseries who have confirmed they will participate and they say that doesn't exist and i would have to call nurseries myself to enquire.
It's supposed to begin in Sept and it seems nothing is in place. I have completed an online eligibility via government website and have an eligibility code, which according to the website I now simply present at childcare provider of my choice (!!!) I don't think a school nursery would work for us hours wise if it does turn out to be a school/private nursery divide, anyway I have missed applications for that as I thought he'd stay in private nursery.
What are peoples experience of this?

I'm really surprised at all these comments about top ups. This is a big no no (I'm a provider) and is definitely not allowed. The 15 (and 30) hours must be available completely free. A charge is allowed for meals but parents must also be allowed to provide a packed lunch to make it free.

In my county top up fees are definitely not allowed, any providers who are caught doing it will have their FEEE contract voided.

Looney if they were already charging for lunch supervision (e.g. if their sessions are 9-12 and 12.15-3.15) can they still charge that?

I would rather pay extra and ensure my children are looked after by qualified and fairly paid staff, in a safe/ heated/ clean environment, with toys and whatever equipment is needed.

A cleaner charge around £10 an hour around here, but a nursery should only get less than £4? How can that be right?

Forsythia they look after more than one child for most of the hours they are there.
For over 3s one member of staff (in a nursery) can look after 8 children.

It is only 3 for a CM (I think?)

Yes but the staff member isn't being paid for looking after eight children, they are lucky to get over the minimum wage.

Looney is right. The so-called free hours must be free at the point of delivery. Several years ago, the regulations were tightened to prevent a number of workarounds.

Strawberry, I don't know how you're managing to offset the funding against your fees. This is one of things we are not allowed to do: you have to offer 3 free hours per session. It can be stretched, but you still have to offer the free hours, regardless of whether you're reimbursed by the funding or not.
Nor can you charge parents, then refund them at a later date.

Of course it's unaffordable to providers. The Government knows full well it's unaffordable. The 15 hours were a struggle and now thousands of providers are refusing to offer it.

Those that are managing to offer it are working around by charging for extras or upping their fees. Some are charging the younger children more so that they can offer the older children their "free" hours.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised to see it dropped from this year's manifesto. If you still want it, you'd better get on to them now while they're all still working out how they're going to fool bribe us this time around.

I wish the government would just pay the hourly rate straight to the parent/carer so that childcare places don't have to make any changes but there is still a significant reduction to our monthly bills

they look after more than one child for most of the hours they are there.

of course, but the nursery has fees! It's not all salaries: rent, utilities, salaries, sick pay, maternity pay, agency fee to cover sick staff, heating, food, they must have some kind of insurance? I don't know anything about their business model, but I can't complain about childcare cost when my hairdresser or cleaner earn more.
Don't get me wrong, I can't afford a real nanny, but people looking after my child should be paid fairly.

The free hours system is just not workable as it is.

Sadly, and I mean no disrespect by this at all, this thread just highlights the little knowledge services users have of the FEEE system whether that be 15 or 30 hours!

I went rather spectacularly bust last March because I couldn't make £3.30 stretch to cover the costs that £5.06had been covering until 1st Sept 2015

That was just for 15 hrs - so I was losing £17+ per child per week

Our council specifically forbid working out the bill and taking the 15 hours off

So I went bust, made staff redundant and let down all my families

I'm sorry to hear that katy!
Would £4.11 have covered it or not?

Am I right in assuming that school based nurseries will be covering some of their costs with the school overheads? So making them more viable? Or is that too much of an assumption?

No we were already looking at viability at £5.06 - I hadn't 'earned' properly for a couple of years but it was a community resources - the point at which it was going to COST me money to run it, is the point at which we closed

Our private nursery has just confirmed in the last week they will be offering it. Have you spoken to the nursery manager? They may not have decided yet or told all the desk staff.

Can't blame providers for not offering this. It's completely unworkable. It's not even free in countries with much better provision, it's done on a sliding income scale.

I'm a childminder and I'll be offering it. However it means all parents will be subsidising it because my hourly rate and day rate will be going up to make up the shortfall.

I'll also be cutting back on outings unless parents are willing to make a donation towards it.

My local authority rate is 42p per hour below my hourly rate. I have 2 funded children at present meaning i loose £500 per year as it is. When i made £8500 'profit' last year on a 50 hour week i refuse to take more of a hit.

I'm in the North East (cheaper costs) and the school nursery I'll be sending our son to has confirmed they'll be offering the 30 hours 9-3.15 and a £2.50 charge for lunch. I'm more than happy with this as it's enough to wipe out our childcare costs. I can take most of the school hols off or get family to help.

I would like to keep my son off on the two days I don't work but not sure if I'll be allowed to do this.

Drspouse well i suppose thats one way of getting around it because of the supervision issue but how much could you reasonably charge for 15 mins if they have a packed lunch?

We are going to be charged a top up basically.

Spoke to nursery manager today. The funding means they are short £11 per session so they will charge £11 per session for 'additional costs ' like food.

So instead of my bill going to £0 per week it will be £66 per week for a hot lunch and tea.

One of my worries - for myself and for the industry in general - is that we are very likely to have a Conservative government for another how don't know how many years; that funding will not increase in line with inflation; going by what is happening to schools, the fees paid to nurseries and child minders will be cut.

Our nursery is bringing it in - but only a certain number of places on certain days and they are prioritising toddlers who already attend.

I don't know how my nursery work it out, they have said they'll be offering it but I won't be expecting any major reduction in fees. At the moment DS is one and so this is the most expensive time anyway, fees go down slightly when he turns 2 and the ratio goes down, then again at 3 when the 15 hours kick in but it's barely any reduction. Less than £100 a month if I remember correctly. They spread the cost over the whole year.

"that funding will not increase in line with inflation; going by what is happening to schools, the fees paid to nurseries and child minders will be cut."

That's what happened to the current 15 hours. It was well funded when it was introduced in the early 00's (can't remember which year offhand). It was 2.5 hours per session.

Then it was increased to 3 hours per session and our Council, at any rate, refused to increase the funding so we took a drop. It's never been properly funded since, with us losing more and more money.

The response of the Government was "we're not paying for nappies and food". Well, OK - but how many 3 and 4 year olds are still in nappies? And if they are, I'd say that was a pretty important part of their childcare to ensure they're clean, comfortable and properly nourished, wouldn't you?

Even then, the funding doesn't cover our costs, particularly when they've cut everything else to the bone in Early Years. Nurseries and childminders are going out of business.

As an aside, my MP made another £17million for himself earlier this year. He was entitled to the free nursery education and would be entitled to the "free" 30 hours if his children were young enough.

Fair??

Its yet another case of this idoit government not living in the real world. They pull these daft ideas out of the air.
Why should nurseries provide free child care. They have bills and staff to pay. Its the way the world is.
It's completely unworkable.
Where is the money coming from.

Surely if a school nursery took up the scheme it would just mean that they can only take half the intake so some parents would no longer be able to get a place for their 15 hours?