In thinking 30 free hours won't be available to the majority of us

[backtowork2015]

My ds aged 3 is in private nursery, I've asked the nursey manager and they have no information on how this may be implemented at present.
I have spoken to the council the nursery is in anc they say they are waiting for central government guidance.
I spoke to my council (neighbouring town) and asked for a list of nurseries who have confirmed they will participate and they say that doesn't exist and i would have to call nurseries myself to enquire.
It's supposed to begin in Sept and it seems nothing is in place. I have completed an online eligibility via government website and have an eligibility code, which according to the website I now simply present at childcare provider of my choice (!!!) I don't think a school nursery would work for us hours wise if it does turn out to be a school/private nursery divide, anyway I have missed applications for that as I thought he'd stay in private nursery.
What are peoples experience of this?

What childminder is going to offer wrap around to a preschooler? All that paperwork for so little money and blocking an early years space for the day.

I'm a childminder and will continue to provide 15 hours. I do charge for all extras such as snacks, meals, outings etc as the funding rate is not financially viable for me.
You can use up to 2 providers if you are using the 30 hours.

You can split it, we will be between nursery and pre school. School nurseries aren't much good in holiday time as we need longer hours that cover the year.

Our nursery spreads the cost over the year so our fee doesn't change, which includes the current 15 hours we get.

snap8 I offer it as long as the parent pays me for the full day. i explain that I offer the free hours, but if they prefer to use preschool, they can, but at a full day rate. Once I explain they would save 15 hours worth a week with me, they tend to see the advantages of waiting till reception year for school!

In my local sea, many nurseries have already announced that they will be offering it, but as a childminder, I know that few childminders will offer it. On average, childminders where I live charge between 5.50 and 7.00 an hour, but the council will be giving 4.11 per child per hour. And a childminder opting in would loose some of her contractual arrangements with parents (for example, standard contracts in the industry state that parents and childminders have a one month notice period, but childminders opting in would have to give one full term notice to parents and parents would retain their one month notice period when leaving). Plus, we don't decide how the invoicing work. I always charge my families in arrears, weekly. The council would give me a once a month lump sum, and the date is determined by them, not me. I would never know when I am being paid. Nightmare.

Honestly, I know this is of little concern for the parents, but this is an absolute minefield for self employed childminders. I think we will see many good childminders closing down over the coming years (months) as nurseries with many employees will find a way to make their business work (by employing trainees, and paying them below the minimum wage, for example). I cannot see how my business would survive with such little income.

It is more than feasible to just knock off what you get from the council. it's what i do.

There are going to be more rules about how they can do this for the 30 hours though. There have to be longer hours during which you can use it for example - no more 9-12 only but you have to pay for 7.30-9.

You can split the 15 hours but I haven't seen anything about the 30 hours - Lindy2 can you show me where that is?

And the 30 hours may only be useable by CMs who are in a consortium? part of a company? Again Lindy do you happen to know?

Wuthering our DS school nursery currently offers the 15 hours and you can then pay for extra hours and for after school care (a few nursery children go to this).
They are looking into making the wrap around care eligible too (not sure if it will be longer hours in nursery itself, or registering the after school club as a 30 hours provider).

Drspouse, in my area independent childminders can offer it. There is a support team in place to help with the transition and they are running free information sessions. It's free in as much as childminders don't have to pay to attend, but we don't get paid to attend iyswim.

My nursery has confirmed they will offer it and are running Q and A meetings this week for information.

Oh that's interesting myschool. We aren't going to change CMs and I doubt my CM would do the paperwork to accept it unless everyone else did and she was going to lose business - but I might hint to her.

We won't use the full allowance with nursery (1 day CM, 2 days nursery) unless they are allowed to spread it over more weeks, as she's with both of them school term and holiday?

Dd's nursery have confirmed they'll be offering it. We'll simply have to pay a top up charge so they don't lose out on their true hourly rate.

2014newme In our area at least 2 of the schools that have a nursery and a holiday club offer holiday clubs/after school clubs for their 3+ nursery children.

As I say our DS' school is starting to offer the 30 hours and is trying to do it in a more wrap around way. Another school nearby has just shifted their after school club to be EYFS and then rest-of-school but they are quite a large school.

We'll simply have to pay a top up charge so they don't lose out on their true hourly rate.
Gosh, I'm pretty sure they aren't allowed to do that.
I think they can charge for the extra hours (and I can't see them stopping charging for lunch, yoga, French, swimming etc etc whatever else) but I don't think they can charge more per hour within the 15 or 30 hours.

Drspouse, it's not just paperwork. It changes the nature of the business. It would mean that we would have to work more for less money, or put it another way, take a pay cut that is significant enough to make the business close down. It's not just paperwork. I used to work in a business environment, and I have a solid business plan for my little childminding business. I have added up the numbers, if I was to offer the free 30 hours of childcare, my income would reduce by a third. I make less that 15 k a year, and that would reduce to 10k, meanwhile bills (electricity, council tax, gas, food) are all going up.

Don't quote me on this but I don't think you can spread it over a longer period. As for school holidays, I really don't know.

There is a petition going round for people to sign for the government to review how this is going to work and credit it as 'cash' into a childcare bank account (similar to the tax free childcare scheme) so that the parents can use it as they need.
Our school nursery is offering this but you can either do 15 hours (5 mornings) or 30 hours 9-3 everyday.
There is no flexibility and the local childminders don't want to pick up from the morning sessions as it's not worth their while.
I do think you will find lots of nurseries/childminders end up doing it but there will end up being lots of 'extra' costs to parents that are often usually included in daily rates, such as, pick up/drop off fees, food fees, playgroup fees etc.
I know our local authority are definitely encouraging providers to add these extra charges to make up the losses as on this scheme they can not claim for any hours the children are not with them and they can not charge the parents any top up amount on the hourly rate

My local pre-schools charge between £6 and £8 an hour, but they get less than £4 for the "free hours". How is that a sustainable system?

Families on lower income already get child tax credit, child benefit, if they get cheaper hours at nursery, it means that they will be subsidised by other families if the hours don't apply equally to everyone. Sounds awfully unfair.

Irregularcommentary and ivy the terrible are your nurseries state or private?

You are correct we can't charge a top up per hour.

Nurseries and childminders should be able to ask for a top-up, and everyone would be winning - childcare providers paid a fair price, parents paying less. So far, they are not allowed to do that, they can only charge for extras (meals for example). Ridiculous system.

Dd's nursery offers it already (North Yorks). We've been told we qualify but we don't need it. The nursery has asked for a contribution to cover the funding gap. I completely understand why they've done this but it makes 15 or 30 free hours more than we can afford. It's ridiculous that the nurseries are paid less for these hours.

Snap8, my childminder will do wrap around for my preschoolers and has done for DC1. It might be because we have a longstanding relationship though. She has looked after all three of mine since they were 10 months old and will continue to so so until they are Year 2-3 when I presume they'll want to go to after school club with their friends.

Our local primary divides up the wrap around care so the nursery children go with reception and Year 1. They can also attend the holiday clubs. It's a big primary in a popular area of a large city though, which might make a difference. Might not be financially feasible for a smaller school.

Myschool Oh I do understand but my CM is also not a fan of paperwork!
So if it was going to mean a few hours extra minding that she would otherwise not have a child for (so that does mean more work but it's pay she wouldn't otherwise get) I don't think she'd do the paperwork.
She does do the Ofsted paperwork, don't worry! But she's a granny who does CM part time round looking after her DGCs and she doesn't want to work more hours if it means significantly more work per hour e.g. more paperwork.

There was a thread the other day from someone whose bill was going UP after the 30 hrs are introduced!

Ours are offering it. But have said they will withdraw if government removes it.
We can use it how we like but cannot stretch over the 52 weeks just over the 38 weeks but they are not going to charge parents if the preschool kids do not attend over the holidays

I know quite a few people whose bill has gone up once their child qualified for the 15 hours, let alone 30.
(nurseries don't accept 15 hours only, so had to use more hours and pay for all the extras, it ends up a lot more expensive)