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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Vegan and vegetarian

94 replies

MeowMeowMeowOink · 24/04/2017 23:07

I am not an expert in either, nor do I believe in either eating habits/way of life/etc etc. (Not to be dismissive but my family for the last 100 years have been butchers!) This is not an attack on choices, more I am interested tell me more. (So I can be less ignorant. Not to change my views)

Just sent little party invites for DCs birthday, we are catering (putting out sarnies) so asked for dietry/allergy info (bloody hell children's parties are hard work, what ever happened to jam sandwiches and party rings..) had two rsvps so far, the first was we are veggie, the second vegan.

It's really got me thinking, where I haven't before now, why is there a difference? More thinking dairy, because male calves are killed in the dairy process, so what's the point in vegetarian, if you eat dairy, you still killing animals? That's just one example I think, it possibly applies to eggs too?

OP posts:
LaContessaDiPlump · 25/04/2017 07:54

Oreos are vegan too! And some types of Pringles (although not salt and vinegar, annoyingly).

LauraMipsum · 25/04/2017 08:03

I agree OP and it does apply to eggs too - the chicks are sexed at hatch and the male chicks are immediately dispatched (usually gassing or grinding).

I did DD's 2nd birthday party vegan - Fry's nuggets, mini vegan pizzas, home made chips, lots of fruit, party rings Grin, veg sticks and hummus. Baked spuds and five-bean chilli for the adults. Didn't do sandwiches as DD dissects them rather than eating them but if I had I'd have done jam and / or cucumber ones. I'll do the same for her 3rd, it wipes out issues over kosher / halal / veggie / dairy intolerant all in one glorious sweep too (although not gluten - fortunately our only gluten-free guest was an adult).

Thekitten · 25/04/2017 08:19

Hello, new here. Joined to answer this thread!
Anyway my partner is a vegetarian as she (same sex relationship) too wants to lessen her impact on the world. We've got practices such as factory farming because people are eating way more meat than is necessary (eg, eating meat in every meal, or every day). She believes that if people eat less meat then factory farming will end.
She has considered veganism, but as someone else said above, it's the cheese! She knows the dairy practices aren't great either, so we try to buy ethical brands and only buy free range eggs. We plant bee friendly flowers to help the bees.

I personally want to be a vegetarian because looking at meat makes me feel ill sometimes, and I just find it very grisly. Unfortunately due to a blood condition I cant give up meat altogether :(

I guess for some people it's why they want to be vegetarian in the first place that will affect the choice on whether to be vegan or not.

hackmum · 25/04/2017 08:29

I'm vegetarian. I live with two vegans and am considering becoming vegan - as you say, OP, it's ethically more consistent - but it's hard.

However, being vegetarian is in itself better than eating meat, not just from the animal cruelty point of view, but the climate change point of view. The meat industry contributes hugely to global warming and also to malnutrition - land and resources that could be used to feed humans are taken up with feeding animals raised for meat instead.

hibbledobble · 25/04/2017 08:29

Vegetarianism reduces both animal cruelty and environmental impact. Sure vegan is best, but it not sustainable for a lot of people's lifestyles.

I'm a life long veggie, and I love it. I have tried being vegan but became unwell, not doubt because I wasn't doing it properly. Now with children I aim to have a low dairy diet by having soya milk instead of cows milk, but I recognise that dairy and eggs are important to a vegetarian child,and I believe a vegan diet would be too restrictive for them.

ExplodedCloud · 25/04/2017 08:29

I'm a vegetarian. It isn't a perfect choice but it's better than not being vegetarian at all. There are many things people do that aren't 100% effective but are better than not bothering.

UppityHumpty · 25/04/2017 08:32

When a child has a dairy allergy it's often easier to request vegan food. Similarly with egg allergies.

Whatslovegottodo · 25/04/2017 08:33

My family have a lot of farmers in it. If any thing that's made me realise more that I couldn't eat these beautiful animals.
After many years vegetarian I recently opened my eyes to the suffering of animals in the dairy and egg industry and went vegan.
Simon Amsteds mockumentary 'carnage' is a very watchable introduction into it on iPlayer.
As is this YouTube video.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=ogVtT0XJrCY

kikisparks · 25/04/2017 08:39

sweetkitty I found this tastes quite like galaxy www.veggiestuff.com/vegetarian-vegan-sweets-treats/dairy-free-chocolate/organica-organic-vegan-swiss-chocolate-couverture-bar-100g it's a while since I've had it though

kikisparks · 25/04/2017 08:41

Laura that party spread sounds amazing!

Casschops · 25/04/2017 08:47

Im a veggie through it liking meat but no deeper than that. From a veggie perspective people make the common mistake at parties of presuming you eat fish but we don't as that is peskatarian. So put your veggie butties separate to meat. Vegetarians will eat eggs and cheese providing the cheese isn't made with animal renate. Vegns will not eat or wear anything produced by an animal including honey, milk cheese and eggs egg....Cetera!

DeadGood · 25/04/2017 08:55

Fry's nuggets are incredible. I eat meat (though try to minimise it) and have these over "real" ones - they are fab!

peukpokicuzo · 25/04/2017 09:07

Everyone has their limits for how much they feel able to give up for the sake of animal welfare. Some are happy to eat any meat but wouldn't be happy for their family pet to become dinner. So are happy to eat most kinds of meat but won't eat traditionally-reared veal or foi gras or may exclude dishes that require a creature to be boiled alive. Others are OK to consume things that don't directly kill an animal in order to produce it like milk, eggs and honey but don't want to eat any actual bits of a dead creature (vegetarian). Others don't want to eat anything of non-vegetable origin (vegan). Still further along you get fructarians who will only eat such plants as have evolved to produce edible parts as part if their life cycle eg fruits and things like courgettes - but won't eat things where the whole plant gets rooted up and destroyed in order for it to be eaten. It's all a spectrum and you either have to shut your ears, close your mind and not think about it, or you have to reconcile yourself to what balance between ethics and practicality you are willing to sustain with your lifestyle.

dangermouseisace · 25/04/2017 09:09

I'm vegan. My family are real meat and potatoes people (I have farming family).

I went veggie first, but then, as you pointed out, I found out animals are still killed/harmed through the dairy process, male chicks killed etc so I went vegan. Plus when you think of it- adults drinking milk meant for baby cows…yuk. Then, as I got older I found out about the environmental implications of meat and dairy and that kept me vegan…although I don't count myself as a 'proper' vegan any longer as I do wear clothes that are made of wool etc e.g. if my mum has knitted me a jumper.

I also found that I felt much healthier as a vegan- I had unknowingly been dairy intolerant, and started to cook most meals from scratch. It was really hard to be vegan when I first started 20 odd years ago, now it's fairly easy. I don't think that everyone should be vegan if they don't want to be though- but I do think that cutting down on eating meat/having dairy is a wise move for sustainability reasons. Every little bit helps- my own kids eat meat/dairy but perhaps not as much as many kids do.

It's easy to do some vegan kids party food. I think party rings are vegan. Marmite sandwiches are vegan if you use some vegan marg- or my kids like tahini and marmite sandwiches (yum). Obvs jam sandwiches are too.

hibbledobble · 25/04/2017 10:19

Also to point out that people's reasons for being veggie/vegan are diverse and can include : animal welfare, environmental, taste preference, health reasons, intolerances, weight loss or any combination of these.

PhyllisNights · 25/04/2017 10:58

I'm a part time vegan. It's too hard to be a vegan full time. It really limits your choices, especially if you're out and have to ask for the nutritional information.

I'm going to raise my baby as a part-time meat eater and then let them pick when they're old enough to make an informed decision.

user1493022461 · 25/04/2017 11:01

Everyone has their limits for how much they feel able to give up for the sake of animal welfare

Which is fine, but some people are so inconsistent as to make it nonsensical.

user1469914265 · 25/04/2017 11:08

although I don't count myself as a 'proper' vegan any longer as I do wear clothes that are made of wool etc e.g. if my mum has knitted me a jumper.

Why would a vegan not wear wool? Have you ever seen how uncomfortable and unhappy an unsheared sheep is?

SuburbanRhonda · 25/04/2017 11:11

I don't count myself as a 'proper' vegan any longer as I do wear clothes that are made of wool etc e.g. if my mum has knitted me a jumper.

Vegans don't eschew wool, do they? It's cruel not to shear sheep as the wool just keeps growing, like hair.

There is well-documented cruelty in some areas of the wool industry, though.

KC225 · 25/04/2017 11:13

I had to cater for a couple vegan kids at a party, saying that I offered after she has told me she would bring her own food as her veganism put people off inviting her children. (She was very worthy and preachy which was probably the real reason as the kids were delightful). There is a list for vegans which changes all the time. Strange thing's were vegan and others not. Quorn wasn't because it contained egg white yet just roll pastry (at the time) was vegan. And I couldn't believe the amount of products that contain milk powder. Pin interest has a million vegan recipes. To make you life easier make the non meaty stuff vegan rather than Meat, Vegetarian AND Vegan. Most awkward item is the cake

SantinoRice · 25/04/2017 11:14

We made vegan sausage rolls (sosmix & jus rol pastry) and liked them so much that we don't make meat ones anymore, so they are an excellent party food.

I'm not vegetarian but I stopped drinking milk to appease a vegan friend, and I've found that I've stopped getting stomach cramps. They were never particularly bad cramps, not enough to even think about really, but now they're gone I am never drinking milk again.

nInachu · 25/04/2017 11:18

I have been vegan for 16 years, was Veggie before that, but went Vegan as I din't think you can be an ethical vegetarian, meat/dairy are all part of the same industry.

But I don't inflict my choices on anyone. My OH eats meat, and a I come from a farming family.

My mother now eats certain vegan substitutes as it has brought her cholesterol right down.

Being Vegan is so easy now, even tescos and sainsburys sell vegan cheese!

SanityAssassin · 25/04/2017 11:26

I really only like chicken and could happily live without meat but when we all stop eating the cows/ pigs whatever there will be no cows/pigs cos no one is going to keep them for fun.

BBCNewsRave · 25/04/2017 12:01

Sanity Right. You think it's worse to have no cows/pigs than lots of them living in horrific conditions?

TheNiffler · 25/04/2017 12:09

We are sort of vegan; no meat, fish, or dairy. We do buy eggs from the lovely lady up the road though. We had our own chickens, but they set my asthma off so we had to rehome. I know how well her hens are looked after, and don't mind eating them. I do miss cheese though, vegan cheese is pretty rank, apart from the Vio-life Creamy

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