To think the tide may be turning...

[Goldenhandshake]

Apparently under twenty fives have been registering to vote in high numbers, assuming because lots of Tory policies have hit this age group negatively. AIBU to feel optimistic that they will turn out to vote and possibly prove the poll predictions wrong?

Any under 25's here who have registered with this intention?

Are you crossing your fingers for your teenagers to become parents or do you think they'd be better off waiting for a few years?

It's none of my business - they're both adults

I'm not saying that I'm blaming the invaded, I am saying that the war was engineered. There is a difference.

We couldn't afford the levels of support to all of those on state support that Labour managed through unsustainable borrowing. I'll be honest, I don't know a single person who depends on state support but I do know that cuts were necessary. If a country goes bankrupt we're all fucked.
Cuts could have happened elsewhere and the problem was not unsustainable borrowing, rather a global crisis.

Without segregating those who receive money from the government, I think everyone should be assessed. I think that JSA should involve sanctions if you aren't looking for work. I think that if you can still work (even part time), you shouldn't have a choice to instead not work and claim benefits etc.
Sanctions are imposed on people for spurious reasons and on people unable to comprehend fully what their options are. They are cruel and unkind. 50,000 people have lost their motability vehicles (this includes electric scooters and power chairs) thereby removing independence and in some cases the ability to work because the government changed the criteria from 50 to 20 metres. That was a cruel stroke.
As for assessments, fine with a fluctuating condition, but some conditions are never going to change and it is cruel to keep demanding that people have to go through the same embarrassing, distressing and frankly useless tests on an annual basis, particularly when you consider that the win on appeal rate is over 80%.

I didn't suggest a similarity that Poland was to blame for not being well enough defended in March 1939 as it seems a bit 'Goodwin's Law'.
Well Godwins or not it would have been a daft comparison. The UK in the 1980s could have spent the money to ensure the Falklands was properly defended - the Argentinians weren't threatening to invade the British Mainland.
As I said, Maggie had form for this - she liked to let people pick a fight and then claim victory on the backs of the deaths and well being of others. She could and should have prevented the war. She and her pals didn't because it suited them - that isn't victim blaming, it's nasty politics and she was very good at it.

No. They're 16. Hope that helps clarify an important bit of law for you.

I often wonder if parenthood should be a privilege when you've proven you understand basic concepts such as law re. driving, drinking and smoking and the difference between an adult and a child.

And we wonder why the UK's going to the dogs!

And we wonder why the UK's going to the dogs!

Perhaps we should stop taxing 16 year olds if we don't consider them old enough to decide how it's spent.

@wasonthelist

Cuts could have happened elsewhere and the problem was not unsustainable borrowing, rather a global crisis.

Where?

Maggie had form for this

What other parts of the UK and overseas territories were invaded due to her lackadaisical approach to defence?

The UK in the 1980s could have spent the money to ensure the Falklands was properly defended

No. simply wrong. The loan from the IMF in the late 70s came with strict rules as to what could be spent and where and what level of cuts needed to be made.

Suggesting she claimed victory on the backs and deaths of others is contemptible. People died defending our country in the same way they always have. She honoured them and for you to suggest she orchestrated it, didn't care about the deaths and simply rode on their coffins to a showboating victory suggests you either got carried away in your post or have some truly nasty ideas. Hopefully the former.

OK I am truly nasty - not like your darling Maggie - suit yerself.

I have changed my mind now that I have been told that the conservatives are a "safe pair of hands" 10 times it must be true. Do not forget they won 2 world wars.

Furthermore I like winning. I am sick of being on the wrong end of recent elections I have participated in. So I will vote conservative and then I can be happy when they win. They will look after me will they not?

I am sure they will see the error of their ways and stop reducing the money that they give to education and the NHS well fuck it my kids are in good schools and I am not having more. Also I have private health so why should I care?

Please do not get me started on those pesky immigrants or people on benefits. They are the reason this country is in debt and nothing to do with selling off all our profit making assets. Or the huge bail out with initial outlay costs of 1.1 trillion. No that has nothing to do with any of our troubles and shhhh do not speak too loudly or the bankers might here you and all trot off to Brussels.

I am sorry for all my previous ignorance and lack of clarity it has all become clear now.

@pumpkinpilot

I'm not really sure what you wanted to say. It was hard to read through the sarcasm.

@wasonthelist

If you say so. I do love watching a good flounce.

Good afternoon ladies.

You know there is another thread somewhere about those on the left being really nasty; yet here we are...

Oh, and Thatcher's victory parades after the Falklands, the orders were no wounded soldiers to be visible. She rode those coffins and the coffins of many a mining family and Hillsborough supporter too.
Nasty? Possibly. Fact? Absolutely.

I have 2 under 25's who are voting for first time, and I don't always vote but will be. We are all anything but tory

This

And we wonder why the UK's going to the dogs!

But I thought we were in safe hands?

I fucking hope so.

Ah posted to soon. At the last GE 9 million women didn't vote.
Think of the difference they could make.

Devorak I try not to sink to sarcasm but you have been so sarcastic and patronising yourself whilst accusing others of the same that it's hard.

of course, views will differ on the Falklands (I lived through it and remember lots of people were anti that war even then) so shall we talk about Thatcher and Hillsborough instead?

Actually, let's not -she is not relevant to the thread.

devorak

This is what you posted:

teenagers are not good decision makers. Do you have one? They tend to make fucking terrible decisions. It's why we don't let them drink, smoke, drive, marry without parent's permission and frown on them having babies.

You weren't just talking about 16-year-olds. Hope that's clarified an important bit of basic English for you.

to be fair few people openly admit to being tory voters....they are like those kids you used to go to school with who claimed to have done "no work" and then got top marks

@aaahhhBump

God I hope so. What do the Tories do for women? Turn them into Prime Ministers. What does Labour do? Verbally batter them out of the race. There's one sensible choice for feminists.

@user148xxx

I am openly (usually) Tory and certainly pretended I'd done less work than I had at school. I don't understand the point though.

@suburban - we were talking specifically about 16 year olds being given the right to vote, not 19 year olds.

Devorak

Disagree with your logic. Neither have been particularly healthy for women and will not vote for either of them.

Dismantling of the welfare state and the NHS in England by both factions.

The rape clause. You can't sensibly support that?

Your comment was about teenagers not being allowed to do certain things by law. Have another read of what you wrote about teenagers - not just16-year-olds.

It's in bold in my previous post.

@suburban

Teenagers are a pain in the arse. Even the 'good' ones. Mine as well as others, the untrustworthy buggers (may or may not be tongue in cheek but I don't think this back-and-forth is going anywhere).

@aaahhhBump

re. the rape clause. As I said upthread, I can be extremely belligerent but am never afraid to change my mind should I be shown why I'm wrong and equally, can happily perch on the fence, hold my hands up and say, 'I don't know'.

Overall I'm quite a boring Tory. Born into a 'lucky' lifestyle with indy schools and Oxbridge until post grad. My household income is around 10x the average UK wage but voted for Labour in my 30s. Maybe twice. Perhaps 3 times. I can change my mind and I've voted for independents too. I would never say, anyone but x party.

I think the 'rape clause' is complex because on one hand, no victim should ever be punished in any way whatsoever and to some extent, this includes reliving abues or rape and they shouldn't be disadvantaged with government financial support. On the other hand, I think there should be a cap on child tax credits. I don't want to live in a society where 10 children to 10 different fathers with the state supporting their upbringing is a legitimate choice.

I'm getting splinters here but I think I land on the side of the fence where in the same way rape victims must go through the ordeal of court for their attackers to be brought to justice (or for justice to happen), so must victims explain to someone that a child should be supported somewhat because they are the product of rape or an abusive relationship. I wish I had a nicer solution but until people stop being terrible to each other, I don't know another.

Do you have a different solution, if you agree that the state shouldn't hand out endless tax credits? I'm genuinely open to having my mind changed.

I don't want to live in a society where 10 children to 10 different fathers with the state supporting their upbringing is a legitimate choice.
I think you'll find that the Joseph Rowntree Foundation have done research on this and found it to be a rare occurrence.
It does concern me that someone claiming an Oxbridge education can be suckered by the Mail. The language of rhetoric is powerful, but surely with a halfway decent standard of education you are capable of seeing through that? This was language designed to blind, to divert. The deserving and undeserving poor narrative. There are few women who have children in those circumstances, there are in all likelihood more who have little choice in their contraceptive choices and their ability to say no, which in turn gives the government a chance to deny again. Unfortunately it's not educating, or helping women in any way, it's punitive and whilst they're cutting funding for Women's Aid, it's a tad sick, too. Different children by different fathers is a tired trope and I speak as someone who has a four children by two fathers. Perfectly acceptable though, I'm articulate.

Devorak I'm trying to work out your timeline and how old you might have been when Thatcher was in power. You seem very protective of her but you voted Labour in your 30s.

Genuine curiosity. I can't see how anyone who has voted Labour maybe three times could defend Thatcher as you have. I accept they might have voted Conservative under Cameron or Major, but not Maggie...