To think the tide may be turning...

[Goldenhandshake]

Apparently under twenty fives have been registering to vote in high numbers, assuming because lots of Tory policies have hit this age group negatively. AIBU to feel optimistic that they will turn out to vote and possibly prove the poll predictions wrong?

Any under 25's here who have registered with this intention?

I just hope they use their votes and don't just register and not to, I only just learned that if you don't use your vote you automatically vote for the person already in power!

No, the tories changed it. Now if you don't vote, your vote counts double and is given to the party sporting that year's colour. 2017 is red, by the way.

@dawndonnagain

Doesn't look quite as awful now, does it.

I didn't ever suggest your family situation looked awful.

As for not being articulate, that was nasty and hurtful.

It was ironic that the post you said you were articulate (not sure why) was rambling and for the most part, nonsensical. It was also the post where you pointedly used "claimed" when I spoke about my education.

I suggested you weren't articulate as you claimed. You suggested I was lying yet you can call me a bully?

We are both voting out of self interest. You want the rich to pay more tax to support you. I want to pay less tax. I want to decrease state spending and interference in the economy, you want more. That's the way democracy should work.

www.cityam.com/263331/four-extra-bank-holidays-just-much-would-labours-policy

Yes justfuckingreally. In spite of you incredulity!

nursy1

The MASSIVE and probably most important point you are missing is the one that GardenGeek makes.

I'm acutally incredulous that you're focusing on the BH's in the first place, are you aware that there are much, much bigger fish to fry?!

GardenGeek and Devorak

Your posts are why MN needs a like button!

Democracy should work so that people should vote out of self interest. Really?

In all likelihood, if I examined the manifestos in their entirety, and voted only out of self interest, I might well vote in entirely the opposite way from how I do vote.

I was raised to believe that when we vote, we also consider the harm and befit that can be done to others.

I am relatively affluent which puts me in apposition of privilege over many in society. I would choose to exercise that privilege to consider how best to vote to help society at large, not just my own narrow self interests.

I have found your posts articulate and interesting on the whole Devorak but your nasty swipe at someone else's 'articulacy ' (albeit in revenge for their use of the word 'claimed') was uncalled for. I read every word of what that PP said; I wasn't muddled or confused by it and the post was not over long.

Oh, and the Bank Holidays were first mentioned on page 1 just so it's not a new discussion that is being raised even though nobody has been able to answer my query as to how it will affect school terms

Sorry benefit not befit in case anyone sneers

Gen Z (those born mid 90s - early 2000s) are the most conservative generation since the Second World War, so I wouldn't be hoping for under 25s to come out and not vote Tory.

@ILikeBeansWithKetchup

Nasty? Ever so slightly mean or a cheap shot at worst but an apology would be insincere.

Democracy should work so that people should vote out of self interest. Really?

Yes, and then the wants of the majority of people are met. You said that you are "reasonably affluent" so, if you don't believe in self-interest, should have given everything else away. Your needs are met when others wants aren't or are you in fact saying that you do act out of self interest? People who don't believe in self-interest and nothing other than 'the common good' are called Communists, aren't they?

I would also say that what's good for one member of society is typically (statistically) good for society as a whole. I'll keep talking about the NHS and Brexit as they, to me, are the key issues at this election:

IMO, May is the best woman for the job of negotiating a deal as we leave the EU. A good deal is in my best interests and also for society.

The NHS should never been entrusted to Labour. Corbyn thinks Labour should be allowed to fix their mistakes. I don't. I don't use the NHS but think it is in my self-interest to have a healthy population leading to a prosperous and 'nice' country in which to live.

even though nobody has been able to answer my query as to how it will affect school terms

Well, no one will be able to as it was a stupid policy told by a desperate and out of touch man. It's no different to a money-shitting unicorn really is it? If he's mentioned more holiday and given good reasons for it then it would have been an interesting discussion but "4 bank holidays for reasons and stuff" must, I'd imagine, have had May laughing out loud.

Actually Devorak, your posts are bullish at best.
I do think those that need support should be in receipt of it. I do think that those with disabilities should be able to afford to heat the homes in which they live and that there should be an understanding that some people with disabilities are unable to work and should therefore be in receipt of enough to live a reasonably comfortable and fulfilling life. I do think there should be a better understanding of those in receipt of benefits, that they shouldn't all be tarred with the same brush. As part of a diagnostic team I have seen disability hate crime increasing on a daily basis since the conservative rhetoric took hold under the coalition government. It is sad, and frightening. It's also sad and frightening that the rhetoric here is similar. You call Corbyn names and prattle on about unicorn shit, but in among your posts is just the same old stuff. It's not about democracy, it's about you shouting the odds until you push people to the point where they can't be bothered to reply, or they're distressed and you think you've won. You're arguments are not discussions, they're battles.

The under 25s are not an homogeneous group. If the majority are going to vote Labour (not a foregone conclusion), then I expect the sole result will be to increase Labour majorities in seats the party already holds.

Okay - I would be content (not happy I am too selfish to say that) to pay more tax IF there was a nice safe all encompassing safety net. So NHS that worked and wasn't hanging by a shoe string. Properly funded social care. Good schools. Good transport. Benefits that provided enough for those in need. etc. etc.
Much like the Scandinavian countries.

But if those things aren't being provided, then those who have - don't want to pay more taxes - because after all if something goes wrong, there is no safety net for them and their families.

1.resembling a bull.

1. characterised by rising share prices.

1. confident or optimistic

Sorry if you feel distressed. I hope you're the only person to feel that way.Having taken my time and read back through every post on this thread that I made, I think you're a little het up.

You have called me a liar, said I prattle on, shout the odds and I assume the frightening rhetoric was aimed at me too. I think it's time for you to reassess who has tried to robustly debate and how got emotional, rude and lost control of their manners.

I may be wrong so feel free to report anything I've written which you feel crossed a line.

Reading all of these posts, I do wonder if any of us will vote for a party where we agree or believe everything they promise.

Whilst one policy may suit, another may not. I can't be alone in feeling totally disillusioned and disengaged with any of the parties these days

I know I know, unicorns and aliens and so on, no party will ever be perfect, would be nice if they were a little closer though

devorak, I agree with you on the bank holiday but nothing else.

Your definition of self interest is a very narrow one. I tried to point out that my primary aim in voting is not myself. My leanings are somewhat communist, tis true.

The reason I mentioned that I was fairly affluent was, as I am sure you know, to point out that I am not voting my way because of a back story about my own life. That doesn't seem to work on you. You yourself were at pains to point out your own 'lucky' (your speech marks) background -so , if it's all right for you , it must be all right for me. I am more than happy to pay more taxes , so that is my way of 'giving my money back'. I also give to charity, but let's not get into points scoring.

However, while we mention background, of course my upbringing was formative. I grew up on Clydeside. My mother was a social worker working with some of the most disadvantaged people in Europe and this was in Thatcher's Britain . Of course that affected me, and the way I view things.

But I think there are massive generalisations on this thread : not all well off people would tend to vote right (even if many would) ; not all NHS workers or teachers vote Labour or LibDem. And, not all young people who vote will vote Labour, despite OP's hopes.

Brexit is not my top priority either (education and social care are) - sorry if that bothers you. I know how I will vote. I don't require a lecture each time I post on why you are right and I am wrong (with an added acknowledgement that's how democracy works).

We know you have an Oxbridge degree. I have a degree in English (not Oxford or Cambridge but RG if it matters) and I don't need nasty defined. To me a cheap shot is nasty. And I still disagree that the post was not articulate, anyway.

Happy to agree to differ on politics.

Sorry if you feel distressed. I hope you're the only person to feel that way

And I thought the fact you're prejudiced against teenagers was the worst thing about you, devorak.

loobyloo - no, I don't think it's possible.

I guess we just home in on the issues that concern us most : Brexit/ education / economy etc and focus on those?

Theer's some quote form Voltaire about ' all things being possible in the best of all possible worlds'

Apologies for dreadful typing!

ILikeBeansWithKetchup

I agree. I took the 'ISideWith' questionnaire last week. The party I should vote for was the SNP apparently. I could've cried (I live in England)

Think I'll wait for the manifesto's to come out before I fully commit though. I'm quite jealous of anyone that knows exactly how they will vote so early on tbqh

loobyloo, I had a similar experience!

I know how I will vote, but took the quiz regardless.

On the first attempt, before I bothered to tell them how important issues were to me, it gave me Plaid Cymru...I'm not in Wales !

I had SNP first, then the Greens then Labour and Plaid Cymru tied for third place.

I am in Wales at least!

I haven't found many people who have had different! It's interesting, isn't it? At heart, so many of us think the same /have the same core values.

Just goes to show what excellent marketing, a good leader, and party allegiances does.

before the whole tuition fees/coalition thing, lots of surveys used to show that ,with a complete free choice of vote and voting on issues alone, the LibDems would have been in power...

I'm 23, I have voted before. However, I come from a very strong conservative family and for the first time myself, my sister and my mum will not be voting Tory.

You need to expand your definitions, or use a better dictionary. There are a few I recommend when lecturing, but as you have your Oxbridge education I'm sure you're capable of finding one. I do hope you weren't one of my students.