To demand that dp pays me back?

[Bigblug]

Bit of a long one but I'll try and explain properly so as not to drip feed.
So I work full time, and pay all the bills myself. Dp is the 'stay at home' parent in theory, but his work requires a lot of favours and back scratching in order to generate work and get noticed. He hasn't been paid anything significant in well over a year. It took a long time for me to accept that he would never be happy in a 'proper job so I kind of accepted that he needed to do this, and in return he would look after the kids so I could bump my hours up. However since the beginning of this year his work has just exploded. There's talks of publishers and tours and festivals, all very exciting. It means that he has to do a lot of networking. In the past 4 months he's barely been home, apart from the necessary childcare. Still no word about any sort of payment but it's all looking promising. However, he's also been swept away with his new found popularity. 7pm meetings keep turning into parties until 3am. Last night we had an unexpected child free night. He said he'd been invited out after, I said we really don't have a lot of money and it would be nice if he came home. He made his excuses, didn't come home until 3am and had spent £30. Now I know this isn't a lot of money in the grand scheme of things but payday is next week and we're crawling towards it. It's also the third time in as many weeks. I was meant to be the one going out for a few drinks with friends for the first time in months, but I knew it would be unwise for both of us to go out from a money point of view. So, I stayed in. On my own. Again. I will probably get flayed for this as I know a lot of mnetters are of the opinion that working money is family money but I feel that I already support him, and I shouldn't be supporting non necassary social time as well, when we just don't have the money for him to do it. And I know that he's just getting swept away in the excitement but it's getting silly now. If it were actual work I could understand. Going to clubs this often is definitely not necessary. I've told him I want him to pay me back. I don't think he will (how would He?) But it's the principle.

Sorry for the rant!

I know a lot of talented artistic people - musicians / music producers, writers, painters. However, if they don't earn enough, they supplement their income - teaching, clerical and managerial work, writing articles to supplement their income from books etc. What have his earnings been over the past 9 tax years? What does he actually do on a day to day basis? Does he clean the house and do the laundry, do the shopping and cook, take and collect the children from childcare /school (doesn't sound like he looks after them much)? I'm imagining him struggling out of bed to take them to childcare, then lolling around not doing much, collecting the children, then heading off out for the night while you start a second shift doing all the things at home that should have been completed in the day. Am I right?

I'm going by his background, and from his mum's observations. Maybe yes I am making excuses but I think if you knew him personally, you would understand. Obviously there are other things, not just this.
That is something I ask myself a lot. I don't want to be in my 30s in the same financial position that we're in now. I want to be able to expand and grow as a person as well as as a couple and I do feel stifled and over shadowed. It'll be our 10 year anniversary next year and in that time, apart from having my children, I've barely achieved anything. It's mostly my fault for being an enabler. I went out for lunch recently with my oldest friend and we reviewed my ex's and it became very clear that I date people who need 'fixing'. If I hadn't been so stupid at 17 and determined to move out, we wouldn't be together now. I became financially responsible for him very quickly but at the time I was young and dumb. Our relationship blossomed and I fell deeply in love and ignored the warning signs. He's such a better person now compared to how he used to be and it makes me feel determined to see it through. The kids adore him. Heck I adore him. I dunno. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone, it genuinely wasn't my intention.

OP I'll ask again as I think my comment was lost...if he's "exploded" then why isn't he getting paid?

lady believe it or not, he's actually very domesticated and does the majority of the housework. On the Monday when the kids are at school/my mum's he does a full spring clean of the house, and does most of the laundry/mopping/bathroom cleaning through the week. He also gets up with the kids most mornings until about 7.30 when I get up for work/help with the school run. So he's not totally lazy, and he works so hard at his hobby, and it's such a shame that he doesn't use his smarts and determination in other areas.

user I have explained in a previous comment :)

How old is he, if you don't mind me asking?

Are you the poster whose husband put on an event to rave reviews and then he went on and on asking questions about it for days afterwards, even though you'd said nice things first time around?

If so, I think you need to accept this is who he is or get out. You chose a man who isn't well suited to working for paid work, or indeed childcare, and only does things he likes on his terms.

It doesn't sound very plausible that he's too badly affected by autism to do a desk job but is able to put on plays, interact with actors, go out clubbing til 3am, I think you have all decided to pander to his quirkiness and obsessional behaviour rather than challenge him to get help with it, or diagnosed, or get a regular job!

I don't think you should necessarily leave him, but the chances of changing him into Mr 9-5 and expecting him to step up and do good childcare, run the house and bring in money are very low IMO. At some level, you have all bought into his 'I'm so creative I couldn't possibly do anything else' narrative, with the threat of depression behind it- and that's what it is.

I have a relative like this and they won't change now, you either take the good bits of what they have to offer and live with it or get out as you are essentially running everything to service their need not to work/to create/to get out of living a normal life.

Should he pay you back? Pointless insisting on £30 as the whole issue is he brings in no money and doesn't do childcare, £30 won't begin to solve this issue because it's a fundamental one about your roles in the family.

Good that he does housework, but why doesn't he do childcare as well, like most SAHP?

If you are happy to support him to do the household stuff and write/create in the other time, then I think that's fine- but know and own that that's the deal. I would also get over the fact you are always going to be fairly poor and won't be able to rely on his income as even if he makes money next year (very unlikely out of a play), he'll then be out of work the year after and so on it goes.

Otherwise you are going to be constantly stressed by who he isn't.

I always think - would this be OK if both partners did the same? Obviously it wouldn't. Yes, OK, it is family money - FAMILY money, and he has blown half this week's FAMILY budget on himself - what if you did that too?

I think the best idea was suggested by a PP who said each of you should have a specified amount to spend on yourself and once it's gone, it's gone.

Ok, so he's a scriptwriter/playwright? Awesome, lots of people are and the arts are important.

But very very few scriptwriters, even the professionals, actually make their living on that alone. Most of them do consulting or creative courses or journalism or something else to keep the wolves from the door while they pursue their passion. (Bloody hell, even the Poet Laureate gets only a few grand a year for it.) And if they've chosen to have a family, those commitments need to come first.

I don't think he owes you money, necessarily, but he definitely owes a contribution to the household. So that might be SAHP-ing, housework etc. If he's not doing any of that, then something is very very amiss and I would be reconsidering sharing my life with someone who wasn't treating it as a partnership.

I might feel differently if he had been a good SAHD/homemaker in the early years, and this is only since he started to get successful and needs to promote himself heavily now he's got a couple of hot irons in the fire. But I really don't believe networking necessitates dumping every evening on you for childcare and it certainly doesn't justify spending half the money you've got until payday. I move in enough art fart circles. Some people have rich partners or are unusually successful (usually because they had another career previously), but to a great extent, the starving artist trope exists for a reason. Saying you'll have to pass because of your budget is understood.

Your update shows how unhappy you are and you even say you wouldn't be with him now if you'd made difference decisions while you were a kid of 17. You have a choice, you always do have.

Great artists often can't maintain relationships.

I watched a television programme about Paul Daniels and Debbie McGee. If I remember correctly, he supported her financially to take a dance show on tour. It was a bit of a money pit (hiring the theatres etc.) but they both believed in what she was doing and - crucially - they had the money to do it. I think your DP needs to get some paying work to supplement his non-paying work.

Anyone who blows £30 on a night out when you have £60 to last you and kids to feed is a selfish arse regardless of whether they work. How dare he.

I think you n eed to see the accounts and indeed could help withthem - eg how much is he paying out each week to hire theatres; how much is likely to co me in; does he have a contract with this suppliers and customers; does he have written collaboration agreements with his partners?

foureyes yes that was me. And yes, you're right :( I think I write these posts on mumsnet because internally, I struggle with this battle of my wants and needs vs his and I find it very hard to have this conversation with friends and family as they're biased and as such, have biased opinion. I come from a family where it's very much 'man goes to work and woman stays home with children' and they find it odd how I live. But if I admitted my struggles to them, they would use it as an excuse to belittle our relationship more. Sometimes it's easier to hear it from strangers even if they don't know the full situation.

If my dh used £30 to go clubbing when we only had £60 left to feed the dcs I'd tear him a new one!

Could the fact that he doesn't charge people be a factor in why he's so in demand lately?

So he is the Sahp and your pissed off because his work is picking up?? £30 is not a lot for a night out either and no I would not be making him pay it back. Maybe you should pay for childcare and he can work and earn his own dosh.

Agree with stitch and Shining.

You at least need to keep the money needed for mortgage/rent, utilities, groceries and other essentials for you and the DCs in an account in your name only. Transfer the rest in to the joint account or his own personal account. Then when his personal spending money's gone that's it, he can't take from your children and leave them wanting.

It really is up to you to ensure he can't spend grocery money on nights out, shocking he would do that but stop enabling him.

The spectrum of entitled twats. ...

He is only a SAHP if he is actually staying at home and parenting. Does he do drop offs and picks ups? Does he do a decent share of cooking and cleaning? Does he look after the kids for any length of time during your work hours? Does he look after them when you aren't at work?

How often is he out? How long has he been networking? How many business opportunities have come from it?

If he is always out under the banner of "essential networking" but he isn't actually seeing any results there is an issue. Networking should be giving some results.

It sounds like he is not being a sahp but nor is he working. It reads like he is just using "work" and "buzz" and "networking" to justify staying at home, doing a minimal amount with the kids and then maximising his social time. Not fair imo.

When actors and directors make utter tits of themselves and wail and cry at the Oscars, this is why - making it in any creative industry involves living a pretty shit life and getting an Oscar or some sort of recognition is validation that it was all worth it. That's what all the thank yous are about too - acknowledgement that many people suffered for their single-minded goal.

He is who he is and living in his shadow must be hard. You don't have to do it.

You act like his mum but dress it up as being supportive of him and his needs but then, you get annoyed when he acts like the person you enable.

Every party in a relationship is a contributor to its dynamic and you've chosen to be the responsible one, with the expectation that he would be great full and pull his weight, instead he's entitled and takes the proverbial.

Before talking to him, you need to have a word with yourself because your relationship is where it is, partly because you're not clear about your boundaries and expectations with yourself and you do do need to be clear what those are, before you can adequately communicate them to someone else.

It's time to stop being a doormat.

muckypup why not try reading the thread , the OP and GPS do the majority of the childcare and the partner doesn't want a 'proper' job , because he's doing his thing .

It is a very unequal relationship which you appear to be OK with - and that's fine, but it can't be allowed to disadvantage your children. There needs to be enough money ring-fenced for them before anyone goes out socialising.

Tahiti

Mucky you need to RTFT. He isn't a SAHP at all.

OP - Instead of expending energy thinking about what's "wrong" or "special" about DP, I think you should focus on what has happened in your past to leave you in a situation that most of us with any shred of self esteem would run a mile from.

You mentioned that you left home at 17 and moved in with DPs mum. What was your childhood like? What's your relationship with your parents like now? What do they make of DP?

I have a horrible feeling you are being taken for a mug. I had a friend with a DP like this, who she supported for years, and as soon as he got his "big break" he fucked off with one of his shiny new luvvy colleagues.

As PP have said though, if you genuinely don't mind supporting this workdodging manchild, why are you posting about it?