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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Religion or Sibling?

23 replies

KrayKray00 · 20/04/2017 17:01

Two women I know are in a bit of a pickle so I was just wondering what your views are on this situation.

In my area, the top rated school is a Catholic school and only has 30 places available for reception each year.

Two women who I know are upset their children haven't got a place at this school.

One women already has a child in that school and hasn't been offered a place. Her children are not catholic.

The other women is upset because her child who is catholic didn't get a place either but does not have any siblings already at that school.

They are both appealing but they have fell out over debating which child deserves the space more (even though it is the schools choice not theirs...)

I was just wondering what other people opinions are on this? I can see both point of views but I seem to agree that siblings should stay together?

OP posts:

MovingtoParadise · 20/04/2017 17:03

Neither are 'right'. The rules are spurious and arbitrary and not of their choosing.

Perhaps you could direct them to Solomon for a definitive answer ?

drivingmisspotty · 20/04/2017 17:05

Oh dear I think I would stay well out of it! No idea who 'deserves' it more. Doubt either will win their appeal if the school is full up if children higher up on admissions criteria.

They should concentrate on other options rather than fighting each other.

ToffeeForEveryone · 20/04/2017 17:06

Sibling.

ChaiTeaTaiChi · 20/04/2017 17:07

I think they should both cop themselves are realise that neither of them are likely to get a place and they are as daft as each other for arguing about it.

GaelicSiog · 20/04/2017 17:11

Well, it's not down to them, it's down the the admissions criteria. If religion tops child at school, as it probably does, then that child does. If oversubscribed it goes to the appeal panel.

TakeASipOfDancingJuice · 20/04/2017 17:12

My friends kids go to a Catholic school and this happens every year. Loads of kids don't get a reception place even if they have siblings there. You have to be regularly going to Church to stand a chance of getting a space. I would say the Catholic child should get priority but maybe they don't go to Church as often as other families do?

BarneyRumbleton · 20/04/2017 17:12

Has the Catholic child been offered a place at another Catholic school nearby?

harderandharder2breathe · 20/04/2017 17:14

Depends entirely on the priority in the admissions code.

Neither child is more or less "deserving", but one will have higher priority which will depend on whether the school gives priority to sibling or religion

haveacupoftea · 20/04/2017 17:15

Obviously neither of their children deserve a space. The parents need to give their heads a wobble.

Allthebestnamesareused · 20/04/2017 17:21

At our local Catholic school the religion would place the child in a higher category with one proviso. To get their state funding they needed to take 15% children that were non-catholic. I won an appeal based on the fact that in the school as a whole they could take one more child to meet the 15%.

Original poster

KrayKray00 · 20/04/2017 17:21

I totally agree it is a silly thing to fall out over as their views and opinions won't determine the outcome.

The women with the sibling only put one school as her choice (the school the sibling is at) she was really sure her dc was going to get in based on that alone and living rather close to the school.

The other mother put two schools 1. The catholic school in question, 2. A catholic school which is a 15-20 minute drive away (not sure about other ways to commute).
Second women had neither place. I assume it could be because she live too far away from school number two?

There are schools in the area which are good but mainly C of E or non religious. It is not a big town so only a number to choose from.

OP posts:

allertse · 20/04/2017 21:28

Well I don't believe that schools funded by public money should be allowed to use religion as a criteria, so I would say siblings first and religion not at all.

AwaywiththePixies27 · 20/04/2017 21:41

I did double school runs for months before we won our appeal for DD. Its not a new thing. Yes it was a pisstake but I'm one of hundreds that have to do it. I appealed because my daughters bullies were making her life intolerable and my health had deterioated rapidly which meant I couldn't so the double school runs as successfully as I had been doing.

The catholic school near us is that oversubscribed even the Catholics get turned down anyway! DD is baptised RC and we were still turned away. Yes annoying but then I saw how appallingly the secondary catholic school children behaved and was glad that my DCs couldn't get into the feeder school for it. (No it wasn't my sole aim - ir actually is our nearest school within catchment, as in, at the end of the road).

My advice is to appeal, most of the panels know the rules are absurd and will uphold your appeal if there's space and you've made a good case. Saying that though, I know someone who lived next door to their c of e primary, 2 kids in primary, 3rd sibling placed in another school.

I think the two need to focus their energies on appealing and not fall out over it. I can see it from both sides.

EveningShadows · 20/04/2017 21:45

Catholics shouldn't have their own schools funded by our taxes, so sibling definitely.

TeenAndTween · 20/04/2017 21:45

They're both daft not filling up their preference form and not including a local 'banker' school.

The school admissions policy will dictate which one gets placed higher up the waiting list.

They can't appeal with an argument based on being too stupid to fill out the application form sensibly. If it is a ICS appeal they are unlikely to win anyway unless there are exceptional reasons.

Suggest you smile and nod, and encourage them to go on lots of waiting lists.

isadoradancing123 · 20/04/2017 21:48

Surely if it's a catholic school then catholic children should get first
Choice? If the other parents don't want a catholic ethos why do they want that school

meditrina · 20/04/2017 21:53

It helps if you remember that RC VA schools are actually church schools currently operating under the state umbrella (nit state schools given privileges).

It's about how the criteria are drawn up, and the most 'deserving' is the one who scores the most highly.

Appeals for Reception places (when PAN is 30) are almost certainly ICS appeals, so the only way to win is if an error has been made and your DC would have been offered a place had the system been carried out correctly; or if the criteria were unlawful; or if the decision was snsble it was legally perverse - high threshold eg child protection issues.

Further point if detail: 'will uphold your appeal if there's space'. If there's a space there's no need to appeal.

AwaywiththePixies27 · 20/04/2017 21:55

If the other parents don't want a catholic ethos why do they want that school

You'd be surprised! A fb Mum got their DC moved miles away as the school they liked was outstanding. RC. Parents are atheists. (Disclaimer: Yes i know they have to take a certain percentage of non practicing).

AwaywiththePixies27 · 20/04/2017 21:56

Further point if detail: 'will uphold your appeal if there's space'. If there's a space there's no need to appeal.

Good point and I stand corrected.

halobean · 20/04/2017 22:12

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Ameliablue · 20/04/2017 22:19

It's normally not that simple. In our school, i can't remember exactly the criteria but it was asking the lines of certain criteria (not religious, rather catchment, support needs, siblings...) give you priority for a place and within those criteria Catholic take priority over non Catholic. So a non Catholic with a sibling may take priority over a Catholic without a sibling if other criteria were equal.

UppityHumpty · 20/04/2017 22:20

Most of the Hindu/Buddhist kids I knew growing up went to outstanding Catholic schools. The local schools would fill their non-Catholic quotas with half Hindu/Buddhist and half non-Catholic Christian. Muslim/Jewish/Athiest kids didn't get a look in - it was one of those open secret type things.

Original poster

KrayKray00 · 20/04/2017 22:26

AwaywiththePixies Sorry to hear about your daughter being bullied and your ill health, I hope everything is better now.

The school is ofstead rated as outstanding and is also linked with one of the top high/secondary schools in the area. So whilst one mother wants her child there for religious reasons the other mother wanted her children to go there for the known fact it is a good school if not one of the best in the area.

I agree with the smile and nod comment. It is uncomfortable to hear and be around as they both have valid points but it doesn't matter what we think! But another mother mentioned she is almost embarrassed to admit her child is not a catholic but managed to get a space because the mother of the catholic child believe her child should have it because they are catholic!

God I'm sick of typing CATHOLIC

OP posts:

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