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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU to not understand why "normal" people vote Tory?

999 replies

olddogsnewtricks · 18/04/2017 15:37

OK, so I'll probably get flamed for this but am genuinely interested! All the people I know who vote Tory are pretty well off so use private schools and healthcare. As a family we need the NHS and we need a good education system - and I can't see them getting any better under the Tories. Are these just not priorities for Tory voters or do they really believe they will improve even with a Conservative government?

OP posts:

lottieandmia · 22/04/2017 09:23

'Surely the Tories are making this harder and harder to do?'

Of course they are. The Tories don't believe in social mobility. If they did, they wouldn't have closed the children's centres which helped people to start out in life on a level playing field.

So that 'work hard and you'll be rich' rhetoric is a disingenuous way of blaming people for their own poverty.

insideoutsider · 22/04/2017 10:18

Olddogsnewtricks
Some 'normal' people vote for personal reasons. Which is worse - political ignorance, economic ignorance of common-sensical ignorance?

I am an economic non-EU immigrant, single mother of kids in primary school. I work full time and educated to Masters level. I have lived in the UK for over 10years. Not entitled to benefits for first 5 years so no free nursery etc, paid £9000 for my masters from savings in 2009 as I was not a UK citizen. I now pay a mortgage on my tiny bungalow. That's the only thing I owe. Just said that to say that I'm not rich, upper class or anything.

In answer to your question, I vote Tory because of several reasons.

As an economic immigrant, I just didn't understand the rational of handing out money for nothing. People have lost the ability to look after themselves. The Tory party is the only party I see attempting to return personal responsibility to people.

Labour is like that nice uncle that spends and gives away all the money to all and sundry while Tory is the nasty aunt that says 'enough free stuff, let us earn what we spend and live within our means'. No one likes the nasty aunt, but the children grow up knowing the value of money and can survive when things get rough.

I don't see why every one (including kids of rich parents) get free school meals - what's the point in that? Let FSMs be given to those who actually need it.

Let all who are able to work go to work and make a life for themselves instead if relying on the state. That's what I hear from Tory.

On a personal level, I will always feel a little bit annoyed when I as a full-time working single mom earn less than £1400 per month with a mortgage in my tiny house, see other (hypothetical) single moms in their council houses and earning over £1500 but choosing not to work to 'watch them grow' with cash to spend as they like. The money doesn't come from no where; it comes from me and others who go to work.

I'm happy for my taxes to go to the disabled and to schools and to hospitals. I'm even happy for benefits to be given to people who themselves work but struggle to make ends meet. I'm happy with the (small) cuts to the welfare state that has to be made. I'm not happy for Labour to keep giving away my taxes to people who refuse to work because they don't like working.

There is nothing to be happy about for someone giving me money for nothing. No sense of pride for me and my children. Like a beggar.

That's why I vote Tory - but that's just me.

thebakerwithboobs · 22/04/2017 10:20

So that 'work hard and you'll be rich' rhetoric is a disingenuous way of blaming people for their own poverty.

It could be construed that way I suppose but I wouldn't want them (or anyone in fact) to lose the thought process that links hard work with reward. The reason I felt totally incapable of considering a Labour vote at the last election was because it infuriated me that every time Es Milliband opened his mouth he talked about 'rich people' and 'hard working people' but never made the connection that the vast majority of people who are comfortably off are so because they have worked hard. That's not saying that people without money have not worked hard, but why does one statement have to be taken as an insult to the other? I feel that the Labour Party makes aspiring to be financially successful is somehow wrong or dirty or immoral. It's not at all, and also doesn't mean you want to stamp on the poor to get there.

Totally agree with the sentiment about Sure Start Centres. They were amazing when my children were little-madness to close them down.

JanetBrown2015 · 22/04/2017 10:22

Well said inside. I am an economic migrants witing England too - moved hundreds of miles away from family for a better life and have worked hard for 30 years (no maternity breaks just ploughed on through with full time work)and it's paid off. The Tory party will aim to ensure the welfare state remains able to fund the less well off. Labour will just spend all the money there is and jeopardise the less well off.

The Tories believe in equal opportunity very very much. it is why they keep up the welfare state and state schools and give parents more and more choice of schools too so parents can pick a school which suits their own individual ethos.

LouKout · 22/04/2017 10:23

Many many people work very hard for minimum wage and on zero hours contracts. Not really very rewarding or hitting the big time.

Its not the case that wealthy people must have worked so much harder.

JanetBrown2015 · 22/04/2017 10:23

Caprianna, but you can argue the opposite - only the champagne socialists with a lot of cash can afford to vote for labour policies and have the luxury of taking a risk that they might work as they have money to fall back on. The hard working" just about managings" know they will be better off under the Tories.

LouKout · 22/04/2017 10:24

They wont be though.

Caprianna · 22/04/2017 10:27

JanetBrown, I think the opposite is true. I think only the well off can afford to vote Tory. How are the "just about managing" going to be better off under Tories? I think the Labour policies are generally speaking a much better enabler of social mobility.

LouKout · 22/04/2017 10:28

I 100% agree

FindoGask · 22/04/2017 10:34

"the vast majority of people who are comfortably off are so because they have worked hard"

Really? Do you personally know 'the vast majority of people'? I would guess that most people in work perceive that they work hard - whether they are a cleaner or a CEO. Meanwhile there are a whole host of factors that contribute to a person's success or lack thereof that have nothing to do with their own personal effort.

FindoGask · 22/04/2017 10:37

Also, the Tory party isn't particularly fond of economic migrants, if you hadn't noticed...remember Home Secretary Amber Rudd's proposed law, that firms should produce lists of their 'foreign workers'?

lottieandmia · 22/04/2017 10:52

'There is nothing to be happy about for someone giving me money for nothing. No sense of pride for me and my children. Like a beggar.'

Would you say that to my severely disabled daughter? The point is that hard work does not automatically equate with being able to provide for yourself it just doesn't. So enough with the BS please.

One of my other children is very academic and is actually good at nearly everything. She's probably academic enough to have a shot at getting into Oxbridge. I encourage her all of the time to be high achieving and I support her in her dreams of aspiring to have a great career. But not everyone is born with identical opportunities FFS.

lottieandmia · 22/04/2017 10:57

I actually can't believe what I'm reading 'I vote Tory because I don't want handouts'

Have you seen the persecution they have been exacting on disabled people? Have you seen what they are doing to our NHS? Are you aware that they want to return to the Grammar system? Anyone with a child in primary school should worry about this. No school is going to want to be a secondary modern.

Caprianna · 22/04/2017 11:00

Its the Me Me Me mentality with the Tory voters.

SuperBeagle · 22/04/2017 11:03

Its the Me Me Me mentality with the Tory voters.

A bit like the Labor voters who just want to hang on to the welfare state that enables them to live beyond their means.

LouKout · 22/04/2017 11:06

If they're in need of the welfare state then the whole point is their means are insufficient

lottieandmia · 22/04/2017 11:08

I'm the first to say that Labour wasted money when they were in office. However, attacking the most vulnerable, disabled people in society is evil. And that's what the Tories have done.

Caprianna · 22/04/2017 11:09

Did you even read LottieandMia's post about her daughter? That's who the welfare state should be for.
Its meant as a safety net yes?

lottieandmia · 22/04/2017 11:10

Comments like SuperBeagles just show an inability to follow a rational thought process to its conclusion.

insideoutsider · 22/04/2017 11:11

Findogask
And what's wrong with the Home Secretary wanting to know who and who is working in the UK? Isn't that a good thing?
Nothing to do with liking or disliking economic migrants.
*Remember economic migrants from OUTSIDE the EU are not allowed benefits for the first 5 years (and until they are awarded permanent residency) even though they earn, spend and pay taxes. Politicians seem to like that.

Aren't you glad that someone is watching who is coming in?

Caprianna · 22/04/2017 11:12

The Tories are superb at turning weaker groups of people up against eachother. Its the biggest scam but a very successful one.

lottieandmia · 22/04/2017 11:17

I do think that it often takes a person to be affected by disability or illness for them to understand what it really means - not just for the disabled person but for the whole family.

My parents were Tory voters - they voted for Thatchers administration throughout my childhood. Since my daughter was born and they've been so involved in caring for and raising a child with many complex issues and also helping us financially with legal battles to get what she needs as a bare minimum they've changed their position entirely.

lottieandmia · 22/04/2017 11:18

I agree Caprianna

JanetBrown2015 · 22/04/2017 11:19

No, the Tories just enable people to see what is there and have the better policies.

Can I just say I appreciate that those of us who support the Conservatives and the Labour party on this thread have been polite to each other. We have very strong views on both sides and as we progress towards June tempers may fray but when instead we stick to expressing our views on threads like this left and right can understand each other's positions and it works well.

SuperBeagle · 22/04/2017 11:19

Comments like SuperBeagles just show an inability to follow a rational thought process to its conclusion.

My response was to someone who said that Tory voters are all me, me, me. There's no difference between that and the Labor voter who wants to continue to prop up the unsustainable welfare system because it benefits them to the detriment of their country's economic stability. That doesn't apply to every Labor voter of course, but neither is every Tory voter "me, me, me". Was simply drawing a parallel. Fairly rational, IMO.

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