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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to not understand why "normal" people vote Tory?

999 replies

olddogsnewtricks · 18/04/2017 15:37

OK, so I'll probably get flamed for this but am genuinely interested! All the people I know who vote Tory are pretty well off so use private schools and healthcare. As a family we need the NHS and we need a good education system - and I can't see them getting any better under the Tories. Are these just not priorities for Tory voters or do they really believe they will improve even with a Conservative government?

OP posts:
lottieandmia · 21/04/2017 17:43
Hmm

It can't be too convincing if it's not suitable for public discussion.

Devilishpyjamas · 21/04/2017 17:51

Ooh is Janet brown Xenia? Ha ha ha ha ha - that explains a lots.

lottieandmia · 21/04/2017 18:16

Yep every time there's an election she's on here saying how much the Tories care about sick and disabled people and how shitting on them from a great height will help them get their acts together Grin

lottieandmia · 21/04/2017 18:20

I think the OP was asking why people (normal people = those with a moral compass who don't live in cloud cuckoo land) vote conservative

JustAnotherPoster00 · 21/04/2017 18:26

anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/

For myself this guy has some well reasoned and researched arguments, he is left biased though, some of you may enjoy others might be frothing after reading it but I do ask you to have a look Smile

JustAnotherPoster00 · 21/04/2017 18:31

WARNING!! WARNING!! LONG POST ALERT!!

But everyone who has said JC is unelectable can you please tell me which of these policies you disagree with and why, Im in no way trying to be goady but I find myself getting rage filled because I cant see whats unreasonable about these policies

For those saying the tories are better with the economy, Gideon incresed the countries debt by £550 billion whilst making cuts, why would you trust them? Hmm

20 Labour Party policies

Ban companies based in tax havens bidding for government contracts
It's astounding that this isn't the case already. How on earth could anyone even attempt to justify taxpayers' cash being paid to companies based in tax havens for the purpose of dodging tax?

£10 minimum wage for all workers over the age of 18
The UK is the only country in the developed world where workers' wages are declining in real terms, while the economy is actually growing. A £10 minimum wage would help to reverse this scenario, and it would also significantly reduce the cost of in-work benefits like tax credits and housing benefit (most of which goes to working families these days).

All rented accommodation to be fit for human habitation
Again, astounding that this isn't the case already, but in January 2016 the Tories (over 1/3 of whom are landlords) deliberately voted down a Labour Party amendment to their housing bill to ensure that all rented accommodation is fit for human habitation.

Renationalise the railways
This is a very popular policy that is supported by an overwhelming majority of the public. Do you support rail renationalisation too, or are you one of the minority who think that the current shambles is acceptable?

Renationalise the NHS
The Tory party have been carving up the English NHS and distributing the pieces to the private sector, Jeremy Corbyn has pledged to reverse this process. Are you one of the 84% of people who thinks the NHS should be run as a not for profit public service, or the 7% who agree with the ongoing Tory privatisation agenda?

Free school meals
The policy of providing free school meals to all school children between the ages of 4 and 11 is based on evidence based research showing that universal free school meals lead to significantly improved grades. It will be paid for by ending the generous tax breaks (public subsidies) for the 7% of kids who go to private fee-paying schools.

Create a National Education Service
Jeremy Corbyn believes that education is a right, not a commodity. He wants to create an integrated National Education Service to ensure that education is freely available to anyone who needs it.

Scrap tuition fees
Thanks to the Tories (and their Lib-Dem enablers) UK students now face the most expensive tuition fees in the industrialised world for study at public universities, meaning students typically leave university with £50,000 of debt, and two thirds of them will never pay off their student debts. Labour would end this lunacy by getting rid of student fees.

Restore NHS Bursaries
One of the first things Theresa My did when she came to power was to scrap NHS bursaries for nurses and other NHS workers. This removal of financial support for nurses has caused a huge 10,000 decline in the number of applicants to nursing courses. This collapse in nursing recruitment would be bad enough in its own right, but in combination with a record increase in the number of EU nurses quitting the NHS and a mind-boggling 92% fall in nursing recruitment from EU countries, the UK is clearly facing a massive NHS recruitment crisis. Labour would reverse this calamitous state of affairs by restoring NHS Bursaries for trainee nurses.

Increase the carers allowance
Labour are proposing to increase the Carers Allowance for the 1 million unpaid carers in the UK. This would be paid for by scrapping the Tories' Inheritance Tax cut for millionaires. Unpaid carers save the UK economy an estimated £132 million a year, and they're doing ever more work as a result of the £4.6 billion in Tory cuts to the social care budget.

Create a National Investment Bank
This is actually one of Jeremy Corbyn's best policies, but few people actually understand it. It's absolutely clear that allowing private banks to determine where money is invested ends up in huge speculative bubbles in housing and financial derivatives, while the real economy is starved of cash. A National Investment Bank would work by investing in things like infrastructure, services, businesses and regional development projects, and would end up becoming a kind of sovereign wealth fund for the UK.

End the public sector pay freeze
Under Tory rule UK workers suffered the longest sustained decline in real wages since records began. The public sector pay freeze contributed massively to this. You'd have to be economically illiterate to imagine that repressing public sector wages with below inflation pay rises for year after year would not exert downwards pressure on private sector wages too. Ending the public sector pay freeze would actually boost the economy by putting more money in people's pockets, meaning an increase in aggregate demand.

End sweetheart tax deals between HMRC and massive corporations
David Cameron (the son of a tax-dodger) repeatedly lied through his teeth about how serious he was about confronting tax-dodging, whilst allowing HMRC to concoct sweetheart deals with corporations like Google, Vodafone and Starbucks. One of the main reasons the corporate press are so strongly opposed to Jeremy Corbyn is that they know that unlike David Cameron, he's serious when he talks about clamping down on tax-dodging.

Stop major corporations ripping off their suppliers
Major corporations are withholding an astounding £26 billion through late payment, which is responsible for an estimated 50,000 small businesses going bust every year. The scale of this problem is so massive that it should be a national scandal, and Jeremy Corbyn is absolutely right to align himself with small businesses to defend their interests.

Reverse the Tory corporation tax cuts
Since 2010 the Tories have cut the rate of corporation tax for major multinational corporations from 28% to just 17% (by 2020) meaning the UK has one of the lowest corporation tax rates in the developed world. The global average is 27% and the G7 average is 32.3%. Theresa May has already threatened to lower the corporation tax even further to turn post-brexit Britiain into a tax haven economy. Corbyn is proposing to do the opposite and increase corporation tax rates so they're more in line with the rest of the developed world.

Defend Human Rights
Theresa May has repeatedly expressed her intention to tear up Winston Churchill's finest legacy, the European Convention on Human Rights. Labour would oppose this Tory attack on our human rights.

Zero Hours Contracts ban
Almost a million UK workers are now on exploitative Zero Hours Contracts. Last year the New Zealand parliament voted to ban them, and Labour is proposing to do the same. Long-term employees and workers doing regular hours would be protected from Zero Hours Contract exploitation.

Holding the Tories to account over Brexit
Labour have said that they won't block Brexit, but they will seek to hold the Tories to account over it. A landslide Tory victory would be a disaster for the UK because it would allow Theresa May to pursue the most right-wing pro-corporate anti-worker Brexit possible with almost no democratic scrutiny. The only way to make sure the Tories don't push a fanatically right-wing Brexit on the nation is to ensure that there are plenty of opposition MPs to hold them to account.

Housebuilding
Under the Tory government the level of UK housebuilding has slumped to the lowest levels since the 1920s, even though demand for housing is extremely high. Labour are guaranteeing to invest in a programme of housebuilding, and committing to ensure that half of the new houses are social housing. This wouldn't just alleviate the housing crisis, it would also stimulate the economy by increasing aggregate demand by creating lots of construction jobs and demand for building supplies.

Combat inequality
George Osborne's ideological austerity agenda resulted in the longest sustained decline in workers' wages since records began and condemned an additional 400,000 children to growing up in poverty, meanwhile the tiny super-rich majority literally doubled their wealth. Labour is pledging to reduce the inequality gap and introduce progressive policies to reduce the gap between the incomes of the highest and lowest paid. There is plenty of evidence to show that the least unequal societies are more economically successful places where the people are happier.

lottieandmia · 21/04/2017 18:35

JAP - excellent post

Headofthehive55 · 21/04/2017 18:46

Increasing the minimum wage to £10 means that a qualified nurse, even after all that study, would be rewarded with a grand total of £1.20 per hour extra. I'm not sure it's worth it for the extra responsibility.
Thats the issue with such a steep rise.

AdviceNeededPlease2 · 21/04/2017 19:09

That's my issue with the £10 me Headofthehive55. I'm not a nurse, nor do I work for the NHS. But in my job the assistants had a big pay rise and it will increase further (which is great for them.) But it means the pay gap got smaller between myself the supervisor with lots of responsibility and extra work etc meaning I don't earn a great deal more than the person below who has no responsibility. It's almost worth being the assistant tbh.

wheresthel1ght · 21/04/2017 19:38

My parents are staunch Lib Dems, up until the appalling coalition I myself was a Lib Dem. helped them campaign, leafletted and assisted in our local office etc.

However, Labour had already massive damaged the NHS by allowing deficits in budgets to continue without check, in my opinion the Tories are the only party saying hang on this is unsustainable and we need to better utilise the resources we have rather than constantly borrow to support a management heavy organisation.

Labour massively screwed up the Education system again by poor budget management. The Acadamy status of schools was a Labour policy and in my area especially they are failing. Where they hoped to top up funding from private business they have not got it, where they expected to be able to group together to give them better buying powers they have failed. They have massively reduced TA numbers in order to fund other areas and then wonder why children are not having their needs met.

Lib Dems screwed students over by agreeing to increase tuition fees after campaigning for them to be scrapped (another shocking new - LABOUR policy) so if I am going to have to pay for my education I want a say in how it is run - the Tories offer me that.

Tories are increasing the number of free hours of childcare for WORKING parents. No other party is helping us out. We are struggling, childcare takes up over 80% of my wages. If I used a nursery it would be 125% of my monthly income. All the other parties are willing to dish out free childcare to those who do not work so actually do not need that help IMO. They are not helping those of us who are only just above the breadline. The Tories are.

I never thought I would ever vote Tory. But as they are the only party campaigning to bring the out of control labour policies of Spend now pay back never that helped to bring the country to it's knees in 2008 I am afraid I will be again voting for them in this election.

In addition to these issues - Jeremey Corbyn has single handily managed to destroy his party - they offer absolutely no viable opposition and do not have a cat in hell's chance of being able to run this country. Lib Dems destroyed themselves after failing to be the party people voted for in the coalition. The Green Party are not strong enough and do not have the ability to run the country. SNP only stands in Scotland ergo not a viable choice for me, same for Plaid Cymru and the Northern Irish Parties. Brexit is happening so UKIP no longer have a mandate and for the most part their MP's and a vast majority of their local supporters in my area are racist bigots so again not a party I would want in power.

Hope that helps!

JustAnotherPoster00 · 21/04/2017 19:42

Tories are increasing the number of free hours of childcare for WORKING parents. No other party is helping us out.

I think you really need to do your research better Im afraid

CopperRose · 21/04/2017 19:50

JustAnotherPoster, I agree that on the face of it many of JC's proposals are attractive.

However, I have yet to see a proper analysis of how he intends to fund them all.
Added to that, there is no clear Brexit strategy other than 'holding the Tories to account' which is not a strategy at all.

As such, his proposals are little more than an 'in an ideal world, I would like to...' wish list.

Lib Dems have set themselves up as a one issue party (anti Brexit) and greens/UKIP are basically pressure groups, not parties imo.

That is pretty much why I'll be voting Tory (and Philip Hammond has some good revenue raising proposals, seems sensible & trustworthy, and I like Theresa May too).

JustAnotherPoster00 · 21/04/2017 20:18

CopperRose I dont agree with you at all, but thank you for such an intelligent and honest post Smile

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 21/04/2017 20:48

However, I have yet to see a proper analysis of how he intends to fund them all.

I agree. The performance of his shados cabinet schools secretary on daily politics today was beyond awful. He was announcing stuff but couldn't even begin to answer where the money is going to come from for any of it.

WankingMonkey · 21/04/2017 21:04

Apparently I align most with Plaid Cymru on most things...shame I don't liv e in wales Grin

WankingMonkey · 21/04/2017 21:05

uk.isidewith.com/results/3097127710?from=FNavCWbwT&fb_send=1

Posted before I finished. For anyone who wants to try.

Tories are second to last, UKIP last for me. I would have said my first choice was Labour, then Lib Dems then Tory tbh

thebakerwithboobs · 21/04/2017 21:20

I agree that a lot of the Labour policies sound great, but they simply can't convince me that they are possible. 'Scrap tuition fees' is wonderful, but the funding model they have presented (such as it is) simply wouldn't cover it. I wish I could believe it would, I really do, but I just can't see that it's possible. Similarly, free school meals for all-it's super as a concept in many ways, but the cost is more than the meals themselves. Schools don't all have the required staff or facilities to provide it and the cost of this (which was also not factored in when the coalition extended the free meals) will be hard to cover and it does also mean that money will be inevitably given to those who are happy to pay for school dinners.

A controversial view perhaps, but there actually IS a place in the workplace for zero hours contracts. They are, at the moment, abused by unscrupulous companies and that should be much better governed (and punished) but there are occasions when zero hours contracts can work for both sides-my lovely Dad has one!

As others have pointed out, raising the minimum wage is, again, laudable but what about those who will not receive a proportionate raise in wages for 'higher' positions? I'm not suggesting there should not be a higher minimum wage, but nor should we calculate the cost of this based purely on raising the wages of one level of employee as the wider ramifications are further reaching.

Overall, I will vote Conservative but as a 'least worst' option which is awful. Labour seem to prioritise arguing amongst themselves over engaging in providing meaningful opposition and, and I'll don my tin hat for this comment, I actually quite like Theresa May. I think she's on a hiding to nothing whatever she does to be honest, and she's clearly called an election for political gain but, equally, I think she was pretty transparent about that. Again, not a popular view, but for me the best outcome will be a trouncing of Labour by the Conservatives purely because then surely Jeremy Corbyn will need to stand aside in favour of a leader who is viewed by the general public as electable-in my view it will only be then that the Labour Party can rebuild itself and provide the checks and balances that it should to the Tory government.

Other opinions are available

Anon1234567890 · 21/04/2017 21:41

Ban companies based in tax havens bidding for government contracts
How? what is a tax haven? Ireland? You really think companies couldn't get around this?

£10 minimum wage for all workers over the age of 18
Who is going to pay for this? How many people will be sacked, how many businesses bankrupted?

All rented accommodation to be fit for human habitation
Who will supervise this, how much will it cost? How many people will be made homeless because of this? Where is the detail?

Renationalise the railways
So back to the old days of strikes, bad service, strikes, bad service and oh wait... strikes.

Renationalise the NHS
Huh? the NHS is nationalised Confused

Free school meals
So paying for middle class families to have meals that they currently pay for Confused

Create a National Education Service
HUh? you mean like schools?

Scrap tuition fees
Shake the magic money tree like you are twerking. Don't worry your children can pay off our debts when we are dead.

Restore NHS Bursaries
So everyone else has to pay for their university/training but nurses are exempt. Ok fair enough, who is going to pay for it?

Increase the carers allowance
So your going to pay people for something they already do. Ok fair enough, who is going to pay for it? And what about the rest of the NHS?

Create a National Investment Bank
Oh god, just shoot me already... Nice idea if we have a spare trillion sitting around, oh wait we dont.

End the public sector pay freeze
Who is going to pay for it. Oh wait lets get twerking at the magic money tree again.

End sweetheart tax deals between HMRC and massive corporations
So they are just going to say, ok here is a trillion pounds. lol Talk about naive.

Stop major corporations ripping off their suppliers
How the hell are you going to do this. Fairy wand?

Reverse the Tory corporation tax cuts
Hasnt this been spent like 20 times over. But no worries chase all corporations out of the UK, we dont need them.

Defend Human Rights
By doing WHAT?

Zero Hours Contracts ban
So your just going to sack millions of people?

Holding the Tories to account over Brexit
By doing what?

Housebuilding
No one has ever done that before.

Combat inequality
With his special kung fu moves?

coconuttella · 21/04/2017 22:19

Anon1234567890

Exactly.... Labour policies sound great, if we had a few trillion in our back pocket. Apparently to fund this we can simply bang our fist on the table and demand money from multi-nationals and they'll just pay up with no consequences.... naive.

HelenaDove · 21/04/2017 22:46

Tory misogyny.

Government says women should wear heels for work.

www.stylist.co.uk/fashion/government-high-heels-employers-women-to-work-inequality

lottieandmia · 21/04/2017 23:24

Anon - all this 'there is no money, who will pay for it' business does not wash with me. Under the Tory/Libdem coalition the wealthiest few in the UK quadrupled their wealth for that term alone.

The Tories are about giving their richest chums huge tax breaks. They say that they can't put money into public services because we don't have it. In reality they just don't want to spend it there because it's not part of what underpins their ideology.

LouKout · 21/04/2017 23:31

Increase the carers allowance
So your going to pay people for something they already do

FfS

lottieandmia · 21/04/2017 23:31

'Defend Human Rights
By doing WHAT?'

Well, not fucking scrapping the Human Rights Act would be a start, don't you think? Hmm May has been gunning for that since well before she even knew she would be PM.

lottieandmia · 21/04/2017 23:34

Don't worry Lou - they have special powers. So if they had a disabled relative they'd be able to care for them every day and earn a six figure salary too - . Don't you wish you were as hardworking and also had the ability to be in two places at once? I'm so envious...

AFierceBadRabbit · 21/04/2017 23:39

There's something I don't quite understand regarding those who 'want' a more left/center government, yet will vote tory to stop Corbyn leading the country badly.

I don't grasp this way of thinking, because if you look at it as May wanting this election to get a larger majority into parliament, then isn't it unwise to vote tory, tactically speaking?

If your views are more center ground, how will allowing a house with a vast tory majority make sense? I would definitely vote labour just to stop the country becoming MORE right wing at this point, not necessarily because I favour Corbyn.

I hope that makes some sense!

All that said, it is interesting to read such differing viewpoints. I am passionate and fiery with my personal politics, which I won't really share here, but sometimes some of the logic escapes me.

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