AIBU to not understand why "normal" people vote Tory?

[olddogsnewtricks]

OK, so I'll probably get flamed for this but am genuinely interested! All the people I know who vote Tory are pretty well off so use private schools and healthcare. As a family we need the NHS and we need a good education system - and I can't see them getting any better under the Tories. Are these just not priorities for Tory voters or do they really believe they will improve even with a Conservative government?

DixieNormas, so leaving this important issue until after he had kids would make him an idiot?

Why - well we are not fooled by tory lies. They are not good for the economy - havent paid off the deficit and it was only bad under Labour because of the banking crisis, a crisis caused by people who are unlikely to have voted Labour. If Gordon Brown had still been chancellor he'd have sold off the banks and paid down that debt by now.

Top kek

Your superior knowledge of the situation shows you could teach the conservatives a few things ....

BMW6 I thought I was being flippant with my little aside earlier down the thread. Yours takes the biscuit.

This government is wrecking people's lives. You joke about the slaughter of the innocents but it seems to me that swathes of our society are unravelling and all the government wants to do is desecrate services they rely on and leave nothing in place. It's a sledgehammer to crack a walnut stuff. You can't strip things down and leave nothing but chaos in its wake. That is unforgivable and perhaps the worst legacy a government can ever leave: the destruction of the human spirit.

I genuinely fail to understand how anyone who needs to work for a living, has children to raise, ageing parents, a mortgage, a daily commute, reliance upon the public services of this country from cradle to grave, and little to no long term financial contingency can ever vote Conservative.

Them thinking that Corbyn is crap is a dreadful reason for doing so.

Ordinary people just don't really matter to the Conservative Party, only when it suits. Like IDS said "people are coming out of the council estates to vote". That made my blood run cold, not because "these people" were voting (well casting a recommendation technically) but because they're being sold a pup.

You do need to persuade people that things are bad. Otherwise you just look hysterical. I think people make judgements on what they see happening to them and their families. I'm happy with the schools my children go to, and recently had cause to use the NHS. Far from falling apart, I found it quick and really good actually. Numbers trotted out in debates are not always helpful to individuals.

Gin BMW6 is the same poster who said on another thread that tenants with long hair who are left without hot water and left struggling to wash long thick hair should just cut all their hair off.

Thats the kind of mentality we are dealing with here.

Olddognewtricks
I mean an average salary but unable to afford private healthcarer or schools
Please would you define what you mean by an average salary for a family?

HelenaDove I'd like to say I'm shocked but I'm not.
Feel so despondent and anxious about the whole fuck up

I genuinely fail to understand how anyone who needs to work for a living, has children to raise, ageing parents, a mortgage, a daily commute, reliance upon the public services of this country from cradle to grave, and little to no long term financial contingency can ever vote Conservative.

Judging by your comment it may be because your thinking your mindset is superior to those who have a different opinion

Them thinking that Corbyn is crap is a dreadful reason for doing so.

No it isn't, the guilt by association was played endlessly in the last GE so it's fair game, also you are just trying to promote a "team sport" into politics which is dumbing down the whole system.

Ordinary people just don't really matter to the Conservative Party, only when it suits. Like IDS said "people are coming out of the council estates to vote".

Absolute partisan bollox, Emily Thornberry would like a word

That made my blood run cold, not because "these people" were voting (well casting a recommendation technically) but because they're being sold a pup.

Ah, the old if "they where as intelligent as me" they would vote how i like..

Your so progressive !!

Justanotherlurker

Not I'm not implying superiority it's a genuine question, not a sense of superiority or incredulity, which you clearly feel you possess over me.

I'm not the biggest fan of Corbyn, But the media coverage of him is disgraceful and doing politics in its widest sense no good. We need an invigorated opposition. May was wrong to say Westminster should be united, as Dimbleby said it should be the opposite.

Don't insult me by comparing me to a woman that tweeted about white van man and the England flag. I wasn't looking down on "those people" I was lamenting at how they'd been manipulated by lies and deceit - to manoeuvre an agenda brought about by Cameron's inability to deflect UKIP -which essentially many of them now even admit they were. IDS's comment was breathtaking.

Finally, seeing as I can hear your snorts of derision, I'd be a fool not to point out it's "you're so progressive" not "your"

helenadove But if you have no viable means to wash long, thick hair why wouldn't you cut it short? You could then sell it to a wig maker for extra £££ so it's a win-win

I agree with you headofthehive. People have no idea what is happening to those with severe disabilities or how bad it is because those with severe disabilities are isolated or have no voice. (In my son's case he literally has no voice as he cannot speak).

The political arguments about why the Tories are so bad for him are complex. But one of the key underlying issues is that if you don't properly fund social care then you cannot provide those with disabilities with dignity or with care. You also remove choice. In my son's case a reduction in his package (which the LA are trying very hard to enforce as he moves from children's to adult services) risks him being sent hundreds of miles from here to a restrictive setting (as his needs are very specific and can only be met in one setting locally). Ironically it would cost more but that doesn't affect the LA because a breakdown in his package would cost the NHS, not them.

Try explaining that in a soundbite. We have a year's worth of meetings and emails where we have had to argue and fight to keep everything that children's services set up a year ago (and we have had to argue every single point - which must cost a fortune in itself) to be at the point where we are still arguing about whether or not his fuel should be paid for. The LA believe he can buy all clothing, toiletries, activities and fuel on £25 a week. I am happy for him to wear rags, have toiletries donated by us and only access free activities (what a life for the disabled hey) but £25 a week will not cover his fuel costs and if he can't go out his placement will break down. Every single family member, carer and professional working with him agrees and has told the LA he must be able to go out - but the LA do not want him to cost more than £25 a week living costs (basically because they're broke).

If his placement breaks down and he is sent to a restrictive environment hundreds of miles from home (watch Dispatches under lock and key for the type of place) I supppse not many people will care. But it would destroy him - I don't think he would ever recover - and it would destroy us.

If you don't give a shit about anything other than the economics you should maybe care that for the sake of the weekly cost of some fuel that the LA cannot afford he is now costing the state a few hundred thousand extra a year (paid for by the NHS).

The actual cost of local council cutbacks is real and far more than money for many.

And yes if I looked around at my two other children with their fairly normal lives and didn't read anything political (so didn't know just how big the cuts their schools are facing are), and if I didn't know all the families with disabled kids and adults having the same fights as us I may think all was hunky dory.

I suppose when I got to old age and needed my arse wiped I'd find out the reality.

Yes I'm sure you'd be just as relaxed (and foul mouthed) in dismissing the term if the context was different upperlimit

Devilish, that sounds dreadful. is there a way he could live at home and the family support him or are his needs too complex for that?

It is just that kind of absurdity that we need to stop. I would abolish local funding if I could - all council tax goes to central Government only so there is only one entity paying out cash and it could take sensible decisions rather than LA wanting to push cost on to central gov, NHS.

He can't live at home as it is not safe. We could no longer keep him safe and his younger brothers were being very damaged by the situation (the killer for ds1 was the development of epilepsy btw).

DH did 8 months of leaving work at 2.30 so there were always 2 of us here -but that was no sustainable - we couldn't even leave the house for a pint of milk during that time. We were able to hang on until the local placement became available (I see him ds1 about 5 times a week and am always available- he is ten mins from home). Last week I spent 20 with him as well as working a 38 hour week. He had an excellent social worker in children's who saved him really.

Yes central funding would help as the govt would no longer be able to heap all the blame onto LA when they have been cut so far they simply cannot cover the cost of social care.

Ds1's needs are so complex that he should actually be health funded. But that's another appeal and another battle.

miss

Thats the nice thing about mumsnet

We can be as fucking foul mouthed as we like

Fuck the context

20 hours - family contact is very important.

Incidnetally his right to family life is currently protected by the Han Rights Act and that has provided us with the means to which to argue that he should not be sent hundreds of miles away from us. Of course the Tories want to scrap that. Daily Mail readers people believe it just protects prisoners - it is a huge protection to all of us (from the State) and one of the best protections for the disabled.

Offs human rights act! Bloody phone!

You can swear too? That's exciting!

In another context that would be an unacceptable term and you know it. Yet should you not share my leftist agenda, then you aren't normal.

I mean you aint fucking normal, fuck ya ---- ya Cunt!!!

Devil it is a situation happening all over to so many.....

Why attack the sick, hungry and poor? There is so much we can do....so much potential.....and we choose to go for this?

We are, as far as we know, in this almost infinite universe, the greatest things in creation - with such a short time here. And we choose to spend this time attacking the weak and hungry and sick.

Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn. That is why I have to vote Tory. We have to make the best of a bad job which is the disaster that is Brexit.

I do not trust Labour or Lib Dems with the economy. Their pie in the sky policies do not add up. I do believe capitalism, despite all its evils creates the strongest economies.

Voting Tory does not mean I think they are good. They are screwing up our NHS and education. Their policies on disability benefits are downright evil. It just means that the alternatives (hard left liberals who's ideology doesn't stack up in the real world) are worse.

Voting Tory for me means keeping the economy strong until a better, more centrist alternative can replace them (think New Labour). If the economy is on its knees there simply won't be any money left to repair the damage to the NHS or education Tory policy created.

Very much like I voted to remain. However, now we are definitely going out, the absolute worst thing would there to be a reluctant, squabbling government taking us through. So Teresa May, who voted to remain but is a strong leader determined to take us out is vastly better than Corbyn, a weak leader who argued for years to take us out then changed his mind. And better than Lib Dems who would try and stop it but if unsuccessful would just completely fuck it up.

It's a choice between a government who can make the money but spend it unwisely or a government who would make massive investments but bankrupt us.

I'm simply choosing, for now, the very marginally lesser of the two evils.

Politics has become a game of ideology. Hard right or hard left. For the rest of us, who simply want realistic yet compassionate answers, there is nobody left who speaks for us. I imagine there are a lot of us who feel the same way.

Yes - it is happening to literally every single person I know with complex needs makeourfortune. And I know a lot!

But the Tory policy on the economy has not worked. A five minute google brings you article after article showing that.

How did the Tories get this reputation (or alternatively why are the opposition so bad at getting the message out?)

devil I sympathise with you. I had a child with complex medical needs and fought to get her out of hospital. Unfortunately there was no respite, if I took her home then I had to sort her out so I had to give up work. This was under the labour years so I'm not sure that it would be that different. I couldn't even get the supplies I needed.
I am fortunate that she grew out of a lot of her problems but I do remember the struggle it was and feel we do need to help those going through such circumstances.