AIBU to not understand why "normal" people vote Tory?

[olddogsnewtricks]

OK, so I'll probably get flamed for this but am genuinely interested! All the people I know who vote Tory are pretty well off so use private schools and healthcare. As a family we need the NHS and we need a good education system - and I can't see them getting any better under the Tories. Are these just not priorities for Tory voters or do they really believe they will improve even with a Conservative government?

What are labour going to do?

The Tories are in power. So please, do tell, what are they going to do? Give me a reason to vote Tory. Not a reason not to vote labour

I couldnt vote labour after they introduced tax credits

Yes but Conservatives introduced the predecessor Family Credit. It was simply less generous amd only aimed at the poorest rather than the low middle too.

as we threw money at people to not work, have children they couldn't afford or to do the bare minimum knowing tax credits would top them up to levels past full time workers. To me, that doesn't help a country it just enables a generation to do very little and then the children suffer as they copy their role models.

Have you ever considered that if we had decent wages then we wouldn't have needed tax credits? Most TC are paid to people in work. It was deemed better to have more people in work even if that was part time. There is a bias to second earners but that is offset by at least one worker per family and more.single parents in work. I wouldn't describe them as doing very little. Who says doing a set figure of 40 hours a week is the right way for everyone anyway?

Labour introduced minimum wage

As I said, blind tribalism and we are:

we will inevitably be trying to let labour take the credit of certain policies whilst also playing the not true socialism labour for the failures

If you want to introduce the living wage then you need to look at all external factors, inflation is one issue that needs to be addressed rationally, and amongst the other complications there is the relative cost of automation to wages, if you wasn't so obvious in your partisanship it might be worth the discussion, but hey ho....

You'll be lucky to see it.

The policy is in serious trouble with many providers refusing to offer it because it was never free - the Conservatives expect us to subsidise it heavily and most providers can't afford to do that.

Our nursery and those in the area around us are starting it after this holidays according to a newsletter we got and a form we had to fill out if we wanted to use it...if its going to be changed there are going to be a hell of a lot of angry parents at my daughters school (and others)

I imagine there won't be any news about this until after the election though, as its a good vote winner among parents...

My brother just posted about the proposed general election being in the middle of school exams too. He reckons its a conspiracy...that people that age are unlikely to vote Tory anyway and its a ploy to encourage them not to bother voting. It starts (Why they couldn't vote after school or in breaks is beyond me but yeah...conspiracy lol)

Its also, according to bloody buzzfeed (I see too much 'news' on that damn site) during Ramadan

What I don't get is how the Tories manage to hold on to their reputation of being "pro business". They're still seen as the party of enterprise and self reliance, yet recently it seems they're doing everything they can to hammer small businesses. Upping business rates, trying to force the self employed to do 4 tax returns a year (presumably because we're all cheating scum), increasing NI for the self employed (although there was a rapid and embarrassing U turn on that one). It really looks like the only business they're interested in promoting is that of their corporate chums. The only politician who's been sticking up for small businesses recently is (gasp) Jeremy Corbyn.

Because some "normal" people value the economy over other things. I consider myself "normal" and I vote conservative, because I agree with the economic policies of conservative government. I agree with partial-privatisation, agree with changing the status quo of things in order to make them more sustainable in the long-term etc.

I know wealthy people who vote for Labor. Same difference. They have different priorities and concerns to me.

I think I am probably naturally a Tory voter (although I'm not British so dont vote). The reasons? I'm socially liberal. Philosophically the small state approach is closer to my instincts. In principle I prefer people to keep more of what they earn (higher personal allowance) than to pay higher taxes and get higher benefits. I do believe that a large welfare state to some degree promotes a sense of complacency and chips away at self reliance. There is a creeping expectation that the state, or someone else sorts things out. For example, people don't seem to think of protecting their livelihoods through insurance etc (although I recognise not all can and it's not a perfect protection).

I am a strong believer in the NHS and anxious about what is happening there and I support welfare for the vulnerable (as I'm hope do most people - it's a question of how fairly).

I also think it's unfortunate for society that there is a growing gulf between the few (not particularly worthy) jobs where people earn very well and the rest. I don't know what the answer is to that.

My views are no doubt shaped by my own (inevitably relatively narrow) experience of society and life. Although I would classify myself as relatively well travelled and it never ceases to amaze me (in a good way) what provision and service is available here. I love the community provision / libraries / children's facilities etc. and would want to protect that too.

So a mixed bag.

I doubt anyone agrees with every policy of a party but vote for the one which best fits in the round. Probably my ideal is centre right Tory government with a strong labour opposition to keep them in line. The current situation is a mess.

But full disclosure I am not 'normal' by the definition of the OP (and as noted above not British).

As I said, blind tribalism and we are

Sorry but how is it blind tribalism to point out the facts?

I'm not a "tribal labour voter". I've voted for at least 3 different parties in my lifetime.

You haven't really offered a credible alternative. As for the feeble argument against a living wage, it is just that. Feeble. Businesses want to keep their costs down with no thought to the human cost.

What do you actually expect people to do if they're not paid enough to live and the state removes their safety net?

Do you think they'll just curl up and disappear? Talk me through your logic.

Why vote for anyone? It doesn't change anything greatly, and one way or another we all end up getting shafted and robbed. It doesn't matter what colour rosette these people wear, they are all in the same club. A system where there are only two viable alternatives, that aren't really that different when it comes to the important things, wow!

I've never got why anyone voted tory, ever. It seems to be the first resort of the selfish, cruel, unkind, and (like Brexit) unintelligent. I first had the vote during Thatcher's reign - which may be the reason I can never see them as human beings, really, people who would do that to others.

Having seen what the last couple of incarnations have done (and are currently still doing) to the disabled... Dismantling the NHS to sell to their mates, etc etc... Just how anyone who votes for them sleeps at night is a total mystery to me.

I've never got why anyone voted tory, ever. It seems to be the first resort of the selfish, cruel, unkind, and (like Brexit) unintelligent. I first had the vote during Thatcher's reign - which may be the reason I can never see them as human beings, really, people who would do that to others.

Always a pleasure to see the reasonable & tolerant views of the non-Tory voters...

I sleep fine

The Tories are in power. So please, do tell, what are they going to do? Give me a reason to vote Tory. Not a reason not to vote labour

Your coming at this from the wrong angle, this site has been through all the "I don't even know a tory" meltdown after the past 2 GE and we have had endless appeals to emotion fallacies such as how could a "normal" person vote tory threads in the past the Tory's are way ahead in the polls, its not about converting non tory voters over, it's down to labour to convince tory voters.

Always a pleasure to see the reasonable & tolerant views of the non-Tory voters...

Well, there'll be plenty more in the next few weeks where that came from.

The Tories are in power. So please, do tell, what are they going to do? Give me a reason to vote Tory. Not a reason not to vote labour

Why? this isn't a "convert your opponent" thread??
it's people saying why they vote tory, not why they think YOU should vote tory

And "because the rest are a shit storm and the Torys are bad but they're the only ones that seem able to put one foot on front of the other" is a good enough reason if that's someone's reason, it doesn't have to convert you to be a valid reason for them

I now vote Conservative as it the lesser of the other evils. My DH works bloody hard, 6 days a week and never switches off from the responsibility of staff and paying bills. We get one holiday a year if we are lucky and that's with his mobile glued to his hand as god forbid his staff should have to make a decision without him! Why should he work so hard and have to pay 40% tax to keep an army of workshy entitled scroungers at home watching Sky and smoking!! Years of Labour Government that has thrown benefits at anyone who could be arsed to fill the forms in has been the ruin of this country and the Conservative party are now being slammed for drastic cuts but how else do we get rid of the debt the Labour legacy has left us?
We had an inheritance from DH's late father who incidentally had worked his whole life from 16 years of age, saved, paid taxes and taken care of himself and his family his whole life. How farcical is it that a lottery win isn't taxed but hard earned inheritance is?
It's an insult to ask the workers of this country to support the lazy and workshy. No one minds helping out the elderly, the genuinely disabled or the genuinely needy. But how do you weed those out from the shameless generation?
Show me a party that addresses all of the above and I'll be the first in the queue to vote for them.

"it's people saying why they vote tory, not why they think YOU should vote tory"

This with bells on.

I'm not but my dh is Tory. He's also a deputy head . He thinks the conservatives have been brilliant for education. He is pro trident. Quite traditional. Thinks labour governments piss money up the wall and the tories have to pick up the pieces (through cuts)
We have the same morals despite different political leanings. I find it really immature and small minded when people think you can't be a great person if you vote Tory.

Your coming at this from the wrong angle, this site has been through all the "I don't even know a tory" meltdown after the past 2 GE and we have had endless appeals to emotion fallacies such as how could a "normal"hmm person vote tory threads in the past the Tory's are way ahead in the polls, its not about converting non tory voters over, it's down to labour to convince tory voters.

Is this a long way of saying, the Tories will do nowt to actually fix the broken things as they don't know how to and will just blame Labour for the rest of our lives whilst still not doing anything to actually help. Labour have no clue either and are currently as much use as a chocolate fireguard. For sime reason we are all arguing for nothing but still trying to make out one party has more of a clue than the other, all are either just out for themselves at the end of the day and could not give a crap aslong as their own gravy train keeps rolling on, or batshit crazy (greens, ukip). And we are ultimately fucked unless we win the EuroMillions?

God this stuff is amazing I would never dream of accusing a labour voter of being selfish, cruel, unkind, and (like Brexit) unintelligent.

WankingMonkey has just won.
The end.

Jane, your dh could find himself unemployed, just like anyone else. Far from sitting on his arse like a workshy scrounger, there's a very good chance he could find himself cleaning toilets for £70 a week benefits thanks to your beloved tories. There's your 'lesser of two evils'. You think you won't find yourself at the sharp end of their destructive policies so its fine to vote for them - well karma may have other plans for you.

Great article

www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/tony-parsons-voting-conservative

JaneEyre70
Most benefits are paid out as pensions and to people IN WORK.

Really benefits like tax credits are benefits to companies as they know they can pay lower wages and the tax payer will step in. Raising the minimum wage would have a positibe effect on that part of the welfare bill. Raising min wage is a labour policy.

Equally more progrssive tax system where the top end pay more so the middle and lower earners pay less has been discussed by labour. Major issue on inheritanvmce is that those with lots evade paying their share whereas people like you are wealthy enough to get hit, but not wealthy enough to avoid it. That needs to stop and labour candidates agree with that.

Under the tories they paint it out as the undeserving poor vs working people. The more they repeat that the less people realise thay they have off shore businesses, shares in big health firms, have interesting inheritanve trust arrangements.

I agree with some of your concerns, but I wouldnt trust the tories to help you out because they need people like you paying up so they can continue avoiding paying their share