AIBU to not understand why "normal" people vote Tory?

[olddogsnewtricks]

OK, so I'll probably get flamed for this but am genuinely interested! All the people I know who vote Tory are pretty well off so use private schools and healthcare. As a family we need the NHS and we need a good education system - and I can't see them getting any better under the Tories. Are these just not priorities for Tory voters or do they really believe they will improve even with a Conservative government?

I worked for the nhs under labour.

It was no better, and probably worse, than under tories.

They started, as pp said, the whole pfi thing and also "social enterprise", which was basically backdoor privatisation by getting staff to form their own agencies outside the nhs, and then rehire themselves back as private staff. They actually ran conferences to explain how to do it.

They also closed many key departments.

Needsahalo; it isn't just rough sleepers who are classed as homeless, but also families who live in temporary accommodation. Tony Blair opening our borders to Eastern Europeans back in 2004 allowed several hundred thousand people into the country without building houses to accommodate the influx. To me it's common sense that that should have been addressed before allowing more people to settle here, so it should come as no surprise to most people that the sums were never going to add up. Over 50% of homeless people in cities like London are immigrants. Also increasing rents in the rental market has put renting a home out of reach of some people. Just saying that I agree homelessness has been steadily increasing over the years, but not down to just Tory policies.

Can you honestly say that if there was a party that were going to give you a 10k pay raise, but other random people (who you do not know, so not meaning everyone else in your office) would lose some of their pay because of this you would not vote for them

Yes because I earn plenty.

The problem with the Tories is that they want to make the rich richer, not the poor richer.

I work in London. I know a lot of rich Labour voters. I know a lot of low earning Tories. It isn't about the money. That's a myth.

i believe that if people can they should look after themselves, and not rely on others. some thinds are best provided by the state - education, healthcare, transport, policing but i would not want to see a marxist type state where the state provided most things and controls details of people's lives. i prefer a safety blanket where people have hit on unexpected hard times are helped ST, rather than people being encouraged to live off the state. Hence i vote tory rather than labour.

I have never understood why my husband who has worked hard at school and then at uni and in employment, away from home taking stressful jobs and doing 50+ hours a week should subsidise my BIL who never accepts promotions, overtime, studying or inconvenience in any way for work

Have any facts to back that up, or is it just the usual appeal to emotion rhetoric that comes up anytime politics come up.
www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/rough-sleeping/rough-sleeping-our-analysis

There was an increase of 16% from 2015 to 2016, while since 2010 rough sleeping estimates show an increase of 134%.

And another that says only 54% since 2010

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/homelessness-housing-households-shelter-london-england-a7111501.html

No denying a ridiculously huge rise though.

*Justanotherlurker
*
The rise from 78 rough sleepers to 144 is greater than any other council, leaving the city with the second highest homeless population in the country after Westminster.
The increase was more than five times the national rise of 16 per cent and represents a ten-fold increase since 2010.

Labour are not perfect, of course they're not, but I think their biggest fault is not combating the very well-crafted and now deeply entrenched myths about their economic incompetence.

The problem with that is that not only would the Labour party have to admit some failings but the dogmatic supporters would have to come up with a better argument other than "not true socialist labour"

Justanotherlurker
Across Sussex there are 280 rough sleepers, an increase of 32 per cent in 12 months and almost treble 2010 figures.

I'm your mama- schools and the NHS are ticking over?!! Have you actually been in a secondary school recently? Staff cuts, budget cuts- means teachers can't meet the needs of all pupils. Schools can barely buy pencils never mind books and school.libraries are being cut dreadfully. All this affects the pupils in disadvantaged areas drastically: They're the kids who won't have access to books at home/ or perhaps have less help at home to succeed. Class sizes are 30-33 ( in Scotland) with a wide spread of ability and ESL pupils too with little or NO classroom support ( due to staff cuts). Ticking over? Over the cliff? Pfffttt...

Everyone's 'truth' is different, isn't it? We all have a perspective, an experience, things that have affected us or those around us. We all work in different sectors, see things from different angles and are individuals with different ideals and priorities. We are allowed to have those different experiences and those differing views because we live in a democracy. We have education for our children-not perfect, I'll grant you, but we do our best and it's free at the point of entry. The same for the NHS. We should all vote, as a result of our own experiences and beliefs and be glad that we live in a society that allows us to do that rather than throw insults and nastiness at people who do not share our views. The debates should be about policies not anti-policies, about understanding of others' perspectives, not insisting ours are correct simply because they are what we believe. We still have an embarrassing turn out at general elections-the only political opinion I regularly share is that politics (unbiased politics) should be mandatory in schools and that it should be compulsory to vote or attend to abstain.

i prefer a safety blanket where people have hit on unexpected hard times are helped ST, rather than people being encouraged to live off the state. Hence i vote tory rather than labour

What about the fact that many people simple aren't paid enough to live? They don't earn enough because they're exploited by companies?

Tory voters please give me a reason why it's unacceptable for employees to have decent rights and wages?

*The left wing are a wealthy middle class globalist movement who look after their own wealth and interests first followed by migrants, the underclass and refugees. They hold ordinary working class people in utter contempt and view them as thick oiks who should listen to their betters.

I think the Conservative creed of opportunity offers a far better deal for working class people than Labour who generally just offer benefits and subsistence living.*

^
This from BillSykesDog is another reason I will be voting Tory in June.

I think the Conservative creed of opportunity offers a far better deal for working class people

What is this deal?

There are no ways in which "working people" can do anything about low wages. There is nothing being done about providing homes for all. Houses aren't being built and social housing is being privatised. Grammar schools will not lift people out of poverty - we aren't in the 1950s.
What direct, tangible action will the Tories take to improve things for the person working on minimum wage who can barely afford their rent?

They've had nearly 7 years. What have they done....

Well said @TinfoilHattie 👌

No denying a ridiculously huge rise though.

Not denying the huge rise, I'm trying to distinguish the *1000% increase" and why it's solely a tory issue.

The Simon Community’s July 2002 newsletter claimed that, prior to the
November 2001 head count, the RSU decanted rough sleepers into bed
and breakfast accommodation and held all-night parties to draw the
homeless off the streets in order to push down the count figures. 60 The
RSU and Lord Falconer (Minister for Housing at that time) denied these
allegations. 61 Questions on the methodology of the counts were asked
in the House.62
In January 2007 Inside Housing reported that the number of people
sleeping rough could be “as much as four times higher than the official
figure because of the way the statistics are collected.”63 Authorities
recording between zero and 10 rough sleepers during the June 2006
count had had their results rounded down to zero. DCLG conceded
that the counts did not represent a comprehensive picture of
homelessness but said they “provide a useful snapshot of the number
sleeping rough on a particular night.”

Many things at play here is all I'm saying

I think the Conservative creed of opportunity offers a far better deal for working class people

How does someone paying more than £1000 rent have opportunity to buy their own home? Opportunity is there for the wealthy.

I voted Tory in the last election and really regret it. I grew up in the Blair years and was too young to remember anything else, had very little knowledge or understanding of politics and what historically the Conservatives have done. My dad was and is an absolute dyed in the wool Conservative and genuinely seems to fear Labour and the 'consequences' of socialist type policies. Always had the Times or Telegraph so obviously that skewed things. Absorbed a lot of negativity and nonsense really about Labour.

I had no clue, I'm rather ashamed to say, how bad things would be. I bought the whole trickle down economics, compassionate Conservative, Tories are a safe pair of hands for the economy, line of thought. I did know there would be cuts but I fell for a pretty spurious argument as to why we needed them, all the economy savings we could make etc. I just honestly did not realise the cruel and dehumanising way those policies would play out, and only recently twigged that the economic arguments were a load of crap too. So, political ignorance and a very vocal and domineering father in my case.

Can't say I'm a fan of Corbyn at all but I'll either vote Labour or Lib Dem depending on which vote seems like it might make a difference, although the reality is I live in a staunchly Conservative area so neither will really.

Well put , the bakerwithboobs

There is an old saying, 'whoever wins the election, the government always gets in!' Truth is there is only so much money in the pot and it depends on what you believe should be prioritised as to how you vote. Even then all governments back track on their election promises. I do recall that the last time they were in government the Labour party left a note for the incoming government saying something like, 'Good luck, there is no money left!' Could never trust them again after that.

What about the fact that many people simple aren't paid enough to live?

This is the cruz of the matter. And noone seems willing to even attempt to do anything about it. yes the 'living wage' is a poor front to make out this is being tackled, but realistically, a living wage should mean you can live without topups such as tax credits and housing benefit, but it does not. These benefits subsidize large companies who make millions in profits paying a piss poor wage.

Easy enough to criticize those who have to take 'handouts' to survive whilst working, but no criticism seems to be aimed anywhere else and the current solution seems to be....just take away the tax credits etc that these people NEED to survive. They will find another way, but they cannot. they cannot force their employers to pay them enough to live on and there aren't the jobs to just go bouncing from job to job til you find a well paid one.

A blanket '15 per hour min wage' or something would not work as small businesses would go out of business completely as they cannot afford to do that. Through some kind of tax relief for smaller companies could help there..

Mind, despite my criticisms, I don't know an answer to it. But I am not a politician and this isn't my job.

Another elephant in the room is tax avoiders. Another that noone seems willing to actually tackle because of scare stories such as 'force starbucks to pay the billions they owe and they will just close all their stores in the UK.' Will they bollocks...they make far too much here, as evidenced by the amounts they are meant to pay...

Noone applies to both Tories and Labour, and anyone else btw if that wasn't clear. That post was not aimed at either left, right or middle parties. All in general.

Most Tory voters believe that Tory policies will make everyone richer, including the poor.

Most Tory voters believe that Labour's policies will make everyone worse off in the end, including the poor.

Most Labour voters might believe that the effect of Tory policies would be to make the rich richer at the expense of the poor.

It is a whole other thing to say that screwing over the poor to benefit the rich is a Tory's deliberate intent.

Admitting on here to voting Tory is the same as admitting to voting Brexit - people pile on with the insults and accusations.

The same happens the other way

I do agree though that people really do seem to lay in to tory voters

I do recall that the last time they were in government the Labour party left a note for the incoming government saying something like, 'Good luck, there is no money left!' Could never trust them again after that

That was done by every outgoing chancellor as tradition. The only thing was, the Tories of 2010 thought it would be politically expedient to share it.