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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why do we need a general election now?

278 replies

SpiceAddict · 18/04/2017 11:13

Conservative are obviously going to win. What's the point in doing this now?

OP posts:
WoodPigeonInFlight · 18/04/2017 14:33

I would be interested in anyone who earns less than £200k telling me what they think Theresa May's Tories will do to improve their lives

Brexit

OwlOfBrown · 18/04/2017 14:33

Except that it was the Tories who brought in the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 to prevent this type of thing from being the norm. Only when it suits them though, hey?

Madwoman5 · 18/04/2017 14:37

Brexit is not going to change. Article 50 has been triggered. May is going for a hard Brexit, lib dems a soft one. Soft brexit means we stay in the common market trading position but with it comes free movement and a fee as there is no way the EU will allow the trading benefits without the movement and income. We would, however, be subject to the eu rules but with no say. Hard brexit is out of the bureaucracy, fees, rules and movement and allows us to negotiate a different trade agreement. Lords are kicking off that eu vote was not specific enough (hard or soft). This GE will allow people to decide which party is better to take us through the process, what approach they will take (not saying that eu crew will allow it) but we also should decide based on other issues as usual, brexit aside. Are we finally balancing the books and so on. So far lib dems statements are just talk. There is no way the eu is going to go along with their plans no matter how much they bleat on about it. Corbyn needs to do more to win over the public as he is a bit of a non entity right now, ukip is weak and disorganised so everything is up for grabs. Nicola can get back in her box. I think we have had enough of her posturing for now. The question is do we want May to carry out the mandate to get us out or someone else?

BillSykesDog · 18/04/2017 14:42

The fixed term parliament act was always constructed to give the power to call elections to the HoC, not ban them altogether. It was done in such a way that majority governments could force general elections by voting for no confidence in themselves. And it looks like Labour are going to support a HoC vote for an election anyway. So they have stuck precisely to the terms of their own legislation.

OwlOfBrown · 18/04/2017 14:56

Yes, Article 50 has been triggered but there is nothing to say that the process cannot be stopped after this. To be fair there is also nothing to say it can. Teresa May suggested not, but both Donald Tusk and the diplomat who drew Article 50 up, suggest it could be stopped.

The LibDems position is that we should stay in the Single Market "at the very minimum", suggesting that they may well fight to halt/reverse Article 50 if they were elected.

Batgirlspants · 18/04/2017 14:56

Just hoping whatever happens Dianne Abbott goes. Just listening to her now. Patronising idiot and I just bet she has her eyes closed while talking.

IMadeClarkeCry · 18/04/2017 14:58

The negotiations depend on what EU27 is willing to offer us

They would if there's a weak leader in charge. A strong leader will negotiate. There are things the EU want from us such as our trade. It would harm them as much as us to impose ridiculous tariffs on trade.

As it is, I think May et al. will be able to negotiate. The best leaders aren't especially likable IME.

Thegirlinthefireplace · 18/04/2017 15:01

Wood pigeon that hasn't answered my question. I asked how your life would be improved.

Werkzallhourz · 18/04/2017 15:04

i'm no huge fan of Blair and Brown but there was a global financial crisis. I'm really not convinced that the Tories would have done things differently at the time, do we really think they wouldn't have bailed the banks out?

The finances were going to be in the shit in 2010 no matter who had been in power. And for all his cuts, Gideon's big plan was shit.

The issue is a little more complex than this. The problem was that, to anyone who monitors public expenditure and tax take, Labour, after their first term, consistently overspent above receipts from 2001 onwards during a massive cheap credit boom, and interest payments year on year were reaching £46 billion (over three times the annual budget for the police and justice system at the time). This was a kind of extreme anti-Keynesianism, but was excused by talk of a "new economic paradigm" and constantly referencing climbing GDP (which was itself inflated by cheap money).

It was clear to most watchers that we were living through a false boom caused by cheap credit, and, at some point, that boom would collapse, leaving Britain with liabilities it could not fund through tax receipts.

And that is exactly what happened. After the "global crisis", British tax receipts collapsed by £200 billion. This is the cause of the "austerity" requirement, not that the British state bailed out the banks (those bailouts were largely about the state guaranteeing loans etc) .

Another crippling policy decision was Labour's push for PFI deals to fund capital projects in their first term. They left many public institutions (such as NHS hospitals) with a heavy liability burden that they still have to service out of annual budgets.

A sensible approach would have been for Labour to keep to reasonable spending plans in their second and third term, allowing for the accumulation of a cushion for when the bust inevitably happened. But the problem politically was that Labour had spent years campaigning on the notion that Tory frugality was because they were the nasty party, not because British tax receipts couldn't fund the kind of spend required to fulfil Labour's ideals.

The other interesting point is that Corbyn's economic policies when he became leader were entirely predicated on Osborne either getting rid of the annual deficit through austerity or bringing it down to around £50 billion a year. This is why Labour have been so quiet about Tory austerity; they know they need it if their economic policies are to have any real world viability at all.

alltouchedout · 18/04/2017 15:06

It would harm them as much as us

I think if we are going to make Brexit any sort of success (and by success I mean anything other than an unmitigated disaster), people really need to stop believing that. It really will not hurt them as much as us.

HPFA · 18/04/2017 15:11

It would harm them as much as us to impose ridiculous tariffs on trade.

EU27 may well decide it's in their interest to offer a reasonable deal. The point I'm trying to make is that it's THEIR decision and has very little to do with what sort of majority TM has. She may decide that she now has the mandate to walk away from a deal. But, rightly or wrongly, EU27 think that will damage us more than them so they have no great incentive to stop her doing that.

There are so many variables, this may very well turn out to be a smart move for TM. Corbyn may refuse to go for a start. Just not sure it's clear cut.

PeterHouseMD · 18/04/2017 15:18

"Now was not the time" so said Theresa May just over a month ago when a Scottish referendum was mooted.

In all our best interests, Brexit negotiations needed to take precedence. It was the patriotic thing to do.

Now, suddenly, there all the time in the world to divert to a general election instead..............

Hmm

It doesn't sound good at all, does it?

CantCopeWithMil · 18/04/2017 15:20

Good Post Werkz and to those who were watching Labour headlines were not good way before the CC.

So calling it fault of CC is either because you do not follow things or because you cant face the truth.

I know, because I voted for Blair to my shame, and I wondered after a decade what the hell have I bloody well done Sad

I wonder how many poster moaning about this - have been happy to bleat on about TM not being officially elected?

puzzledandpissedoff · 18/04/2017 15:21

I cant wait to see the May Corbyn TV debates

Don't even go there ... as if his ratings aren't bad enough already!!

In fact I can't help wondering if he'd even risk agreeing to such a thing

deydododatdodontdeydo · 18/04/2017 15:25

A lot of people I know view the Tories as the devil incarnate, and a lot of those people voted Lib Dem, only for them to get in bed with the Tories in the coalition government.
So it's that, not tuition fees along, which has made them turn their backs on the Lib Dems.
Still, others seem to think they are the only pro-remain party and are joyously expecting them to romp to victory and keep us in the EU! Hmm

PenguinsAreAce · 18/04/2017 15:48

She is doing what Brown didn't have the courage to do in 2008. Only her hand is far far stronger.

It is frightening.

PlayOnWurtz · 18/04/2017 15:51

Because it's what the left have been calling for. She can't do right for doing wrong!

Giddyaunt18 · 18/04/2017 15:55

I like Theres May. Far better than that coward Cameron who couldn't even stick around to sort out the mess his referendum had caused. I think she is what is needed right now to steer us through Brexit. can't imagine Corbyn doing that.

nauticant · 18/04/2017 15:57

We'd have a trade deal with Cuba in no time!

EpoxyResin · 18/04/2017 16:09

Whilst I'm not saying Corbyn would be the world's greatest PM, the other EU leaders would be a darn-sight more forgiving in their dealings with him during negotiaons - someone whose politics represent similar values to that of the EU - than May - whose politics doesn't seem to reference any "values" at all. But we're never going to see that theory tested, are we. Unfortunately. We've been stitched up good and proper.

HappyMayDay · 18/04/2017 16:17

We've been stitched up good and proper.

We being the minority of the country. A GE will surely reinforce the fact that the 'we' you speak of is the minority and in a democracy, when in the minority, you have to suck it up.

HPFA · 18/04/2017 16:40

you have to suck it up.

To some extent, yes, but under a better political system that could be ameliorated. PR for example, or giving local areas more control over their own destiny. The country is certainly going to become more divided, there is nothing in TM's policies which could possibly make it less so, it's a worrying situation to have so many people powerless. Tony Blair had a huge majority but timidity meant that even people who weren't wildly keen could co-exist with a Labour govt.

I remember the 80s - not looking forward to going back.

EpoxyResin · 18/04/2017 16:41

Nope, I don't mean the minority, I mean all of us. I don't mean those who voted Remain or those who didn't vote Tory, although I'm kind of curious which of those (or something else?) you assumed I meant?

I genuinely believe a GE at this time and an extension and strengthening of Tory government is a bad thing for the majority of individuals in this country, and it's future in general.

PS "Democracy" doesn't mean minorities have to "suck it up". That's called "mob rule". HTH.

HappyMayDay · 18/04/2017 16:49

@epoxy

Yes, I meant remainers and non-Tory voters. What else could it have meant in that context?

We (the majority) seem to have got what we wanted through democratic process.

@HPFA - I first voted in the 70s so remember the 80s. A lot of it was great. Most of it necessary and it took a brave government to do what wa snecessary.

Oakmaiden · 18/04/2017 16:52

you have to suck it up

Which isn't the same as having to "shut up". Or being forced to "like it".

I despair at the thought of a country where, because your views are not the same as "the majority" you are not permitted to say you hold them. Not exactly democratic is it?

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