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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why do we need a general election now?

278 replies

SpiceAddict · 18/04/2017 11:13

Conservative are obviously going to win. What's the point in doing this now?

OP posts:
HPFA · 18/04/2017 16:58

*Happy May Day

I guess you weren't living in Rochdale then. It doesn't make for a happy society when people are told to "suck it up". We are still living with many of the consequences of things that were done in the eighties, Northern economies have never recovered and no-one can maintain that the massive sell-off of social housing has been detrimental.

Maybe if Mrs Thatcher had not felt quite so free to ignore any opposition we might not have had quite so many problems now?

HPFA · 18/04/2017 16:59

errk election fever getting to me. Insert "not" after "has"

nauticant · 18/04/2017 17:07

I guess you weren't living in Rochdale then.

My experience was similar. I started the decade in North and ended it in the South and the contrast told me that the 80s was effectively about dividing the country and setting the two sides against each other. It was crap and we live with the fall-out to this day.

HappyMayDay · 18/04/2017 17:22

I guess you weren't living in Rochdale then

No. 255 miles SSE.

Northern economies needed to be propped up and would need ever more funding nowadays. Their time was up and whilst this is a sad fact for some, it doesn't make it any less true.

Baroness Thatcher saved the country and made tough decisions that enabled the UK to prosper.

@Oakmaiden

Which isn't the same as having to "shut up".

Sadly.

As I mentioned previously, the real vitriol and bile seems to come from the political left, aimed at Conservative voters and not the other way around.

RedToothBrush · 18/04/2017 18:08

Baroness Thatcher saved the country and made tough decisions that enabled the UK to prosper.

See this is a matter of perspective. Thatcher certainly didn't help some areas of the country and if you lived there, then whether the rest of the UK prospered really was pretty irrelevant. Thatcher actively wanted to almost destroy Liverpool at one point.

What made the country prosper in the end was not Thatcher's domestic policy. It ironically was her support for the EU.

HPFA · 18/04/2017 18:17

I think Happy is kind of proving my point. We ought to be able to look at the Thatcher years and see what was good, what was bad and learn lessons from that. When we just tell each other how can we learn? The aim of voting should be to elect the party you think will best serve the country - it shouldn't be so you can crow over your opponents.

Sinuhe · 18/04/2017 18:18

Football - looking for the goal post...

EpoxyResin · 18/04/2017 18:23

Happy just so you know, neither the number of people who voted Leave nor the number who voted Tory constitute the "majority" of people in this country. Neither number would even constitute the majority of people of voting age.

SarfEast1cated · 18/04/2017 18:44

I'm going to vote Liberal Dems and hope they win with a coalition with Greens/Labour.

Mulledwine1 · 18/04/2017 18:45

I am not a Tory voter (except sometimes in local elections where local issues and personalities trump the colour of the rosette), and I also voted to Remain.

I think this is a good thing. Firstly, whatever the arguments about "you elect a party, not a PM", the country voted for David Cameron as PM, not Theresa May and I think it's good for her to seek her own mandate,

Secondly, I hope that if she gets an increased majority (or a coalition partner) that that majority will have fewer mad Brexiteers in it, and she will therefore take a more conciliatory view towards the EU talks and we'll get a better deal. I also hope she will be more conciliatory towards Scotland too. That is my hope at least.

I live in one of the safest Tory seats in the country, so my vote is wasted (unless everyone who voted Remain here voted Libdem, it is a (narrow) Remain constituency).

UpAwfYerSeatWeeNippy · 18/04/2017 18:55

Meanwhile the 55% of Scots who voted no, now have an opportunity to show Nicola Sturgeon that no, she does not have a mandate for another referendum.
Will there be a box marked 'anyone but the SNP'? Bring it on because I will tick the shit out of that.

I think as it is a Westminster election which the Torys will win anyway, if we want Nicola to shut her hole about indyref 2 we should all vote Tory to stop Nichola chucking a spanner in the brexit negotiations constantly. Even if I was hoping for independence in future I would do this just to make sure the PM could negotiate brexit without irritating distractions.

WinnieFosterTether · 18/04/2017 19:15

Oddly enough most people who want independence didn't want Brexit. It makes no sense for them to vote Tory. Hmm
Although tbh it doesn't make sense for anyone to vote Tory.

RedToothBrush · 18/04/2017 19:29

Ben de Pear‏*@bendepear*

BREAKING CPS have just told @Channel4News that they are considering charges against more than 30 individuals over #electionexpenses for 2015

This is obviously sheer coincidence.

Theresa May didn't know this prior to suddenly deciding to change her mind after saying she didn't want an early GE on at least seven occasion....

Werkzallhourz · 18/04/2017 19:32

i guess you weren't living in Rochdale then. It doesn't make for a happy society when people are told to "suck it up". We are still living with many of the consequences of things that were done in the eighties, Northern economies have never recovered and no-one can maintain that the massive sell-off of social housing has been detrimental.

This, again, was a far more complex issue than people now seem to believe. The reality is that towns in the old textile regions were dead in the water by the early 70s. The north lost some 750,000 jobs in the textile industry between 1895 and 1970, and an estimated other 800,000 jobs in associated industries.

This loss really is the cause of industrial blight in many parts of the North. You are looking at some 1.5 million jobs that disappeared over 75 years and were never replaced.

So jobs lost in mining between 1975 and 2010 (a total of 185,000) really pale in comparison to the destruction of Northern industry that occurred prior to the Thatcher period.

Again, more steel jobs were lost under Wilson than Thatcher. A lot of Thatcher's supply side reforms had been circulating through government for decades, but Labour didn't have the ability to be able to implement them because of their trade union associations.

The council housing sell-off is again is a multifaceted beast. It was the largest transfer of wealth from the state to the British working class ever in British history. It was also originally a Labour policy (which is pretty obvious when you consider it); Thatcher only promoted the scheme and increased incentives.

The reason why really had bugger all to do with "becoming a home owning democracy." Back then, local councils' debt fell into the PSBR, and was utterly out of control. The council housing sell-off removed all council liability for maintenance of those homes and injected money into local councils so that their financial situations could begin to improve.

I think people forget that Britain in the late 70s was a very similar situation to Greece today. They forget Britain had to go to the IMF for a loan and that loan came with strings attached.

I think people also forget just how bad things were politically in the 70s. The financial chaos of excessive public expenditure and liabilities (and the tax burden) caused by post war nationalisation had led to a complex social, cultural, and economic paradigm where we were seeing significant numbers of working class males taking part in NF marches, for example.

I say all this as a Northerner born and bred. For all her faults, my belief is that of Thatcher had not achieved power in 1979, we probably would have ended up with complete civil breakdown, and there was a distinct possibility we could have ended up with a military-backed coup or some form of extreme authoritarian government.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/04/2017 19:57

I've been expecting and hoping for a GE ever since May became PM.

An "anointed" PM like May needs to obtain her own mandate before taking action that may fundamentally affect UK trade and the economy for decades to come.

Whatever the result, the voters then own the direction the country takes.

Angelicinnocent · 18/04/2017 20:14

Werkz it is wonderful to see someone post such factual and informative details rather than a knee jerk reaction based on party lines that doesn't acknowledge the bad decisions made in the past from all parties at times

Zampa · 18/04/2017 20:25

[Right to Buy] was the largest transfer of wealth from the state to the British working class ever in British history.

Are all the Landlords of former council homes "working class"?

No.

Right to Buy transferred social housing into the hands of the already wealthy.

LumelaMme · 18/04/2017 20:34

Right to Buy transferred social housing into the hands of the already wealthy.
I have to disagree. The people I know who have taken advantage of Right to Buy have not been wealthy. They have ended with a sizeable asset, but they were not 'already wealthy'.

Zampa · 18/04/2017 20:47

40% of homes sold under Right to Buy are now let out, with that rising to more than 60% in some council areas.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/right-to-buy-40-of-homes-sold-under-government-scheme-are-being-let-out-privately-10454796.html

Werkzallhourz · 18/04/2017 20:54

Are all the Landlords of former council homes "working class"? Right to buy transferred social housing into the hands of the already wealthy.

No, it didn't. Not initially. You are looking at the situation nearly thirty years on. RTB only applied to tenants of council properties.

Of course, in high value areas such as London, many of those RTB purchasers have then sold those properties on the open market over the last thirty years. So through that mechanism, you get "wealthy landlords" owning ex-council stock, but they didn't purchase those homes directly from the council through RTB.

In other cases, where there was no demand for RTB, councils sold houses en masse to housing associations, but this was not under the RTB qualification.

UpAwfYerSeatWeeNippy · 18/04/2017 20:54

Wow!!! Perhaps poor people who gained the right to buy their homes were able to become totally socially mobile! Perhaps they were inspired to move off their council estates and rent out their own home years down the line Shock

Werkzallhourz · 18/04/2017 20:55

I'm talking about the RTB boom of the 80s, not the situation with right to buy and social housing today.

DixieNormas · 18/04/2017 21:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

skerrywind · 18/04/2017 21:17

I'm quite happy about the situation.

TM handing her head on a plate to NS.

PrincessFiorimonde · 18/04/2017 23:47

alreadytaken, DepthsUnknown, RedToothBrush --

When I heard that May had called an election, I immediately feared there might be something lurking in the woodshed that had forced her hand.

Then I learned that the CPS is apparently considering charges relating to alleged misreporting of various Tory election expenses in 2015 (see Michael Crick's reports on Channel 4 News over the last several months). Charges that - if brought - could lead to the election of several Tory MPs sadly being declared void, followed by by-elections galore.

How fortuitous that, whatever the CPS decides, there's now no need for such by-elections - with all the attention that might have been focused on a few seats which some suspect might have been won in dodgy circumstances ! Instead, we'll have a general election where all candidates across the land start again with a clean sheet.

A happy turn of events indeed.

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