to ask how you feel when someone is at the opposite end of the faith spectrum?

[Morphene]

I've recently discovered two separate people I have been getting closer to (professional/friendship wise) are at the other end of the faith scale from me. I have actually felt a little upset and unbalanced by it.

IABU? I mean I know I am, but do other people get this? Does it make a difference if you are the one with or without faith?

I am sure I will still get on just fine with them, but I feel a little sadness that in this important respect we are very far from each others wavelength.

I suppose it depends what you mean by "bothered". From a theoretical point of view,I am very interested in philosophy, and what and how people think and believe and I enjoy talking about . It obviously runs in the family- my atheist dd is halfway through a theology degree!

From a practical point of view, I don't care what people believe unless they expect special treatment because of their beliefs, or their beliefs impinge on me and mine. And as I live in the U.K., it is Christianity that wants special treatment and impinges on me and mine.

Yes Bertrand bothered to me is vehemently trying to convince someone to agree with your own beliefs, trying to make a believer admit there is no God, or trying to convince an atheist to believe. I've been ranted at, called a fantasist, told I'm mentally ill, professionally incompetent - you name it,

I think every argument for/against belief that anyone brings up will have been heard by both believers and atheists many times before. I've yet to hear of a believer being lectured who suddenly goes "wow I never thought of that, I'll stop believing in God now" or vice versa.

I'm interested in other peoples beliefs and enjoy learning about other points of view, but I have no interest in forcing my beliefs on others.

I am a Christian and have been since childhood, my entire family (parents, siblings, husband, children) are atheists. We get along through mutual tolerance. Misplaced comments don't seem to be too much of a problem.

My dp is a practising catholic with a firm belief in God. I on the other hand am an atheist but I know their religion is important to them and I knew that when we first started dating. We know each other's viewpoints and sometimes discuss it respectfully. Called being an adult.

I see people like Ollie assume that all religions believe the same thing (eg, hell). Just because the foundation for most religions is a belief in God, it does not mean that they are therefore one and the same in their practices.

When did I ever say I thought all religions believed the same thing?

Misstic I cant believe you are actually trying to martyr yourself, telling me how hard it is not to except evolution, talking about the persecution of christians. Its pathetic.
What about the poor muslim girls who are dragged back to Pakistan at 14 to marry men they have never met? What about the appalling treatment of individuals in the name of religion all over the world? The teens brought up in evangelical churches in America commuting suicide because they are too frightened to come out as gay and think their lives are over anyway?

Read my posts directed at you carefully, all you have done is skirt around the issues I raised to you.

"The existence of evolution is definitely a fact. You can watch it happening in colonies of bacteria over the course of weeks"

Yes that is true, but I have heard the argument that there is no known example of one species turning into another species. Not my area of expertise, but that is why I cannot "believe in" the theory of evolution.

And having a mathematical theory that predicts the way the world works does not explain how the world was designed. I can take a machine apart but that does not put me on the same level as its designer.

Yes that is true, but I have heard the argument that there is no known example of one species turning into another species. Not my area of expertise, but that is why I cannot "believe in" the theory of evolution."

Eh?

"Who are Creationists and which religion does isn't based on what you would say is 'easily demonstrably not true'? Which religion do you believe is based on a foundation that to you is demonstrably true or is it just Judaism, Christianity, Islam, etc (ie, those who believe in God the divine creator) that you think are less intelligent than you?"

Tell you what. Why not look up "Creationists" then come back and we'll chat.

"And having a mathematical theory that predicts the way the world works does not explain how the world was designed."

The world wasn't designed.

I just find it a shame when people discount others because of faith issues (unless, of course, their faith or lack of faith is represented by unpleasant behaviour. ) I always feel sad when I read posts such as the one above who says that they do look down on people of faith and think they must be less intelligent, thus in one fell swoop tarring everyone with belief with the same brush. Countless millions who have faith have come to that position or strengthened that position through reason.

I find it difficult to grasp the idea of rejecting people as friends because of a faith position. I come across many atheists on here again and again and often think how much I'd like them irl; for example Bert on this thread, I often nod along with her views on various things like politics, parenting and education and value her input on religion/ philosophy threads, despite us being in very different positions when it comes to faith (although I tend to agree re creationism, esp YEC) - my feeling of empathy with who she is and how she expresses herself might irl lead to me wanting to go for a pint with her, and I 'd be horrified to think that our faith positions would prevent that (although I don't think it would in this case, it just would with what some others have said)

bertrand

I commend you I really do, but your intelligence is wasted here.

They can only make sense of things by trying their best to convince themselves that people who believe in God must be stupid.

Christ, that's what good atheists dont do! I told you you could be a scientist or an evolutionary biologist for all I care. You said you didn't except evolution and gave a bullshit reason why, you got called out on that alone.

What do you mean by "good atheist" Ollie?

I knew as soon as I saw the OP that the position was going to be unreligious struggling with religious, rather than the other way around.

Religious people are fully comfortable with themselves and with the fact that they're a bit the odd ones out. Unreligious people have a narrowness of ontology that they are genuinely confused that people they respect believe in things that they don't.

I find this really interesting

You can't be a good atheist or a bad atheist or a mlitant atheist or any other sort of atheist. You are just an atheist. There aren't any different types. All the qualifying words apply to you as a person not as an atheist.

Dione one who doesn't use the 'you believe in god, you must be stupid' fallacious argument... As misstic claims they all do, I cant speak for all atheists, but I've heard the argument before from them in debates and its wrong.

"good atheist" was the wrong thing to say, I should have said a good debater.

Religious people are fully comfortable with themselves and with the fact that they're a bit the odd ones out. Unreligious people have a narrowness of ontology that they are genuinely confused that people they respect believe in things that they don't.

Massive generalisation there.

If i wanted i could equally ridicule people who are prepared to accept the impossibe odds (too high to calculate) that the universe just flashed into being by itself.
But some scientists are religious and also believe this too...so you're ridiculing science now? I'm confused...

X post with Bertrand.

Yes that is true, but I have heard the argument that there is no known example of one species turning into another species.

Sorry but that is not really what evolution is. It's a process by which variation/mutation gives an individual a biological advantage that helps it flourish and become more successful at reproduction, thus winning the survival of the fittest race. It's about differences in successive generations not animals turning into other animals as such. There is plenty of evidence in the fossil record of this development.

From a practical point of view, I don't care what people believe unless they expect special treatment because of their beliefs, or their beliefs impinge on me and mine.

^^This. However, the very nature of some of these belief systems means segments of voting populations do affect everyone because of their stance on homosexuality, abortion, contraception, resistance to various medical advances, resistance to purely secular schools and education curriculum etc.

That is the nature of democracy Fixit. There will always be segments of the voting population who hold different views to yours and vote accordingly.

Defiantly yes and I wouldn't change democracy but in this way religious belief does impact all of us as a community.

Defiantly? Definitely

Yes quite. At the same time I don't understand how some believers are so overly invested in atheists views.
No that's not the case though. If atheists just said they don't believe, fine, it's when they ridicule people who do believe that causes us to defend ourselves. It's not true of the other way round. We don't ridicule you.

"If i wanted i could equally ridicule people who are prepared to accept the impossibe odds (too high to calculate) that the universe just flashed into being by itself."

But some scientists are religious and also believe this too....so you're ridiculing science now
No they don't accept the odds, because the odds are impossible, what they're doing is trying to come up with a scientific explanation which is equally impossible