to ask how you feel when someone is at the opposite end of the faith spectrum?

[Morphene]

I've recently discovered two separate people I have been getting closer to (professional/friendship wise) are at the other end of the faith scale from me. I have actually felt a little upset and unbalanced by it.

IABU? I mean I know I am, but do other people get this? Does it make a difference if you are the one with or without faith?

I am sure I will still get on just fine with them, but I feel a little sadness that in this important respect we are very far from each others wavelength.

In terms of respecting each other's views
This can be hard
While I respect people's right to their own view, I can't necessarily respect the specific view e.g. Homophobia
Obviously I wouldn't be friends with a homophobe or anti abortion person, but get to things like assisted dying, which some might oppose on religious grounds, and it's less clear whether or not I would be close friends with that person.

I'm trying to be polite here when I said in my opinion. However.

Logically the proportionate harm of the huge number of child abuse scandals, magdalene laundries, outrageous treatment of women and babies - many of whom will never get closure - in mother and baby homes, a generation of stolen children in Ireland can hardly described as small even in relation to the size of the church.

And it is beyond me how anyone could think otherwise.

And those examples are just the recent ones. You could go further back to the crusades for example and all the people who were killed or had their families torn apart.

This is interesting.
As an atheist, religion doesn't have any place in my life, and I would expect friends to respect that. So if their faith is central to their lives and personality then I'm probably not going to get that close to them, because that would be a fundamental barrier between us.
As far as dating and relationships go, I wouldn't get involved with anyone who actively believed or practiced any religion.

Religious leaders have been responsible for tremendous damage and likewise non-religious leaders have been the purveyors of some of the worse atrocities. The problem rests with the leaders.

I'm curious about the intolerance and anger that atheist habour towards those who believe on God. Even more interesting is the view that those who believe in God must be stupid and that they the atheist must be intellectually superior. Clearly religious people have no education, are illiterate, are in occupations reserved for the stupid, do not function I'm society, are criminals, etc.

OP, if you feel uncomfortable having a meaningful friendship with people who believe in God, then for your and their sake, cool the friendship. Your intolerance is shocking.

I see people like Ollie assume that all religions believe the same thing (eg, hell). Just because the foundation for most religions is a belief in God, it does not mean that they are therefore one and the same in their practices.

I cannot take a person seriously when they criticise something they know very, very little about.

As a Christian, I've experienced a lot of prejudice from potential dates and friends. I honestly cannot understand why people can't just live and let live. I won't push my views upon militant atheists but I am also getting sick of hearing about how religious people are the cause of all that is wrong with the world.

I dated someone who seemed lovely until I revealed myself as a Christian. He ended the relationship but not after completely undermining me at every opportunity and constantly bringing it up.

It's a shame. Never once would I ever say to someone "you should believe this" but you wouldn't believe how often I hear "you shouldn't believe this" or "I'm too intelligent/logical etc to be religious.

It's a diverse world and I've got friends from all over it who worship or don't worship. I just wish I didn't constantly have to fend off prejudice.

It beggars belief that someone wouldn't want to be friends with me because of my religion but that has happened

I am an atheist. I have lots of friends who are religious, but I have to admit that if I meet someone new, and am really getting on with them, I always feel a slight twinge of disappointment if they reveal they're religious.

And I say this as someone who is very against racism, homophobia and anything that prejudices against a group of people. People often say to me "you don't seem like a typical Christian" and I tell them that there is no such thing. We are all different.

For them though there will be a sadness about and a profound disconnect with the events you mention above. They will locate them primarily within a social or cultural context and see perpetrators of abuse as anomalies.

Their day to day experience of faith and church will be positive, socially useful and spiritual. They will know many lively families which gives more evidence that people from their faith are good people.

And individually Catholics have sex before marriage, gay sex, use contraception and have abortions because that bit doesn't matter to them.

My kids went to a catholic secondary - it was an amzing spiritual school that allowed space for self development and they left as atheists- phew!!

I think we either have the capacity to believe or don't. Belief makes no sense to me and I do have a little space between me and those with faith.

I do think we get ridiculed by atheists as is apparent by some of the posts on here. If i wanted i could equally ridicule people who are prepared to accept the impossibe odds (too high to calculate) that the universe just flashed into being by itself.

Hackmum, may I ask why? Disappointed in what?

What about a person having a belief in God causes you such discomfort?

Like Grapeating, the overtly hostile attitude towards people of faith is such a puzzle in a society that claims to be tolerant. Prejudice against and abuse of people of faith seem to be socially acceptable.

Birds, I didn't describe it as small.

I described it as proptionately less harmful than Scientology.

If my child announced they were becoming a Scientologist, I would logically think they were at greater risk of harm and a risk to others than I would if they announced they were becoming a Catholic.

Catholicism does not equal the whole of Christianity. Yet, many atheists equate the two.

People on this thread are not equating the two.

Given a large part of the historical political situation of the UK is Protestant vs. Catholic, Most people are going to be aware there are different denominations.

I described it as proptionately less harmful than Scientology.

On what basis though? What makes Scientology more harmful than Catholicism?

And we only consider Scientology exceptionally harmful because it's not a majority religion like the main branches of Christianity are. They're all cults nonetheless, and all of them have caused their fair share of harm to others.

Consider how many sects and branches mainstream Christianity has inspired, for example. The People's Temple murder mass suicide, for one. Charles Manson murders for another. The Westboro Baptists. The list could go on.

On the basis of the extent of illegal behaviour and harm to members that the Scientologists have engaged in.

The Westboro Baptist church is another excellent example.

If someone I knew was going to join the Westboro Baptist church, I would consider that to be a greater level of harm to themselves and others than if they became, for example, a Quaker.

I am not particularly religious myself (although I identify as culturally Christian). I have many friends who are religious, but in a 'lite' sort of way and that's all fine.

Like all sensible people, I find hard-core religious types hard work but equally I'm not crazy about heavy-duty virtue-signalling atheists.

hiddenmn thank you for taking the effort to write all that.

I think I have far more disagreement with religions, than with natural theology, but I don't know if that really helps. As someone else posted earlier, if someone has opted to spend a lot of their time supporting an institution that appears to be fundamentally corrupt then I can't really help feeling uncomfortable about it.

infinite recursion doesn't imply a need for god though....as the mandelbrot set demonstrates....but maybe I didn't quite understand that part of your post. If we keep finding new layers of detail and unanswered questions, then I guess we might one day say the universe is fundamentally not understandable, but all the evidence to date points the other way. The number of big unanswered questions is drastically reducing year on year.

The majority of the world believe in God. The fact that the overwhelming majority of us go about our business quietly without the need to abuse those who do not share our beliefs should be an example to atheists. We do not feel the need to ostracise friends because they do not share our beliefs neither do we go on a daily crusade looking for every opportunity to ridicule atheists for not believing in God. In fact, if we dared to share our faith no matter how gentle, we may be brought before HR. Saying you are a person of faith can lead to people thinking you are stupid, you are not capable hence you should be denied promotions, friendship should be withdrawn, etc. You would think the persecution of Christians and people of other faiths happen elsewhere and not here.

On the basis of the extent of illegal behaviour and harm to members that the Scientologists have engaged in.

Because the Catholic (etc) Church has never engaged in any widespread illegal behaviour?

Again, I am talking about proportionate levels of harm, which is a logical way of assessing risk.

On what basis though? What makes Scientology more harmful than Catholicism?

Scientology functions exactly like a cult, because that's what it is. Secretive, no questioning allowed, isolation, levels of 'achievement' etc.

All the Catholic churches I've encountered in my life, and indeed all of the clergy, have actively engaged doubters and questions of faith. Mind you, I'm speaking of mainstream Catholocism.

Almondpudding, my comment was not aimed at you but at posts earlier in the thread where some people's understanding of Christianity is based on their understanding of the Catholic Church. Even the last post by Morphene talks about the 'institution' as if it represents all others.

I agree with others, its extremely sad that there isn't more respect from both sides. I have witnessed atheist friends being hassled in the street by people spouting fire and brimstone, and I have experienced some very nasty workplace harassment when the HR officer decided, breaking confidentiality, to tell my junior staff that I am Christian.

I'm a scientist, I also have my faith. Its very sad that some people are so narrow minded that they lose respect for someone simply because of what they believe, that they find people with faith "ridiculous".
I also think its sad that religious people seem to be fair game for all number of insults, slurs and mass judgements. Its a pretty shitty thing to do to, and to use the "well what about all the bible bashers who rant at me that I'm going to hell?" is a rubbish justification for ranting at someone and/or being verbally abusive.

You often won't know why a person really chooses to have faith, those reasons can be deeply personal and rooted in trauma - my own reasons for believing are. Why not live and let live? Why are there so many people who feel the need to try and convince others that their beliefs (religious or otherwise) are the right ones?

There aren't many people in RL who know I'm religious, I don't advertise the fact as I don't think its relevant, much the same as I don't advertise the fact I'm vegetarian - my beliefs are personal to me and unless they become relevant I won't mention them. We're also not raising DS to be religious (DH is an atheist), when he's older if he asks I will tell him I believe in God, but helping him to find his own path is very important. I was raised strictly atheist and decided to follow religion as an adult.

I think YABU OP, we all have views and beliefs unique to us as individuals, why does it matter what someone's beliefs are,with the obvious disclaimer of so long as they aren't hurting anyone.