I've taken on a narc and now I'm wavering. WWYD?

[needallthehelpicanget]

Basically, to cut the long story short, I've decided recently after suffering at the hands of possibly narc MIL, that I'm not putting up with her behaviour, so today is the second logger headed incident.

Recently, she has been complaining that she doesn't get to see GCs, it's the hols, we have relies visiting soon for a few weeks, and the DC are back at school next week etc. so I (selfishly) said do you fancy having the kids next week as I need a haircut and do a few things. She said yes.

Roll on today, I dropped them off at 10:00 am, stayed for 20 mins while we discussed what she was making them for lunch (I am happy with whatever she wants to do), how they have an appointment at 3:30 for their haircuts. I also mentioned that my elder child has brought a toy to play with while the younger,one has his nap after lunch. I can't remember if I had mentioned the time that I'd be back to collect DCs.

Anyway I go off, get my hair done, go home, get a few jobs done as there is no point me going to MILs any earlier as the younger child will be napping and I'd have to hang around being a nuisance while waiting for him to wake up (this has happened before).

So, at 3pm, when I get to MIL , she informs me that BIL has been and just left and taken DS1 swimming. I then say but you knew he had a haircut booked?
She says nothing. I ask to borrow her phone and try in vain to get hold of BIL who doesn't answer his phone. I am at this point, angry, because no one had rung me to ok the swimming trip (I would have been happy under planned circumstances), and that she'd let him go despite knowing that they'd had an appointment.
So I say to her calmly, in future, could you ring me before letting DS go or else I won't be sending them to hers.

I then take DS2 and leave. I didn't storm off but I was angry.

I then try to get hold of BIL again but he doesn't answer, as I thought there may be a chance that he could turn back or I could meet him to collect DS1. However, DS2 is giving me merry hell as he doesn't like having his hair cut and so I phone DH at work to try and get hold of his brother and try and get my elder son to the hairdressers. BIL doesn't call back until 4pm. This is after the embarrassment of turning up to a booked appointment without DS1 and the trauma of a haircut with snot and tears. I say please can you bring DS1 home in 10 mins. He says ok.

30 minutes later I send him a text saying DS1 has a swimming lesson at 5:30 please can u bring him home as I have to feed him and get him to swimming. I then phone MIL wondering if they'd turned up there and she informs me that they have not and she doesn't know where they are.

BIL eventually brings him home at 4:45pm, apologises half way down the drive. I call out after him, "next time , just ring me"

DH then comes home and gives me a right telling off for upsetting his mum over a haircut.
Then BIL texts DH saying sorry for taking DS1 swimming. I tell DH to text back that I really appreciate him taking DS1 and sorry it was a disaster.
He then comments that MIL is really upset, has been crying over the way I treated her.
Apparently the kids were only supposed to be there an hour.
So DH replies that I'd discussed lunch with her, he replied, lunch is not 5 hours, then DH had to defend me again by saying DS was left with toys to play with during DS's nap time, etc.

So this is the second time I have called her out on this type of behaviour and this is the second time she has started the waterworks.
What do I do? Do I cave and apologise. am I being petty as according to BIL and DH 'it's only a hair cut', or do I stand my ground against a woman who has downright bullied me for the last 14 years? My issue is not so much the haircut but lack of text/call to me which could have avoided the whole fiasco.

I feel that I've finally found the courage to quietly but firmly stand up to MIL but I am feeling a bit stupid. But it's her and BIL, who always panders to her that have blown it out of proportion?

Me and DH have had an argument over this, and we are so happy right now, and I don't want to spoil that, but at the same time i won't tolerate these hissy fits just because she can't accept she made a mistake.

Alarm bells went off in my head re the delays with the B-il. My dad's brother was sexually abusing my sister & I when the family thought he was " treating us on outings " .

Why is everyone you don't get on with labelled a narcissist on mumsnet? It's not even used correctly 99% of the time!

I'm not sure if you will leave your DC with her again but if you do I would suggest writing everything down (drop off/pick up time, nap time, etc) so that it's all documented and she can't lie! Leave the note with her and take a picture of it to send your DH!
Add in there that you don't want any plan changes without contacting you or DH as well.

I have a lovely mil. Straightforwards not complicated. My own mother on the other hand... Would have done the same. Deliberately miscommunicated to other people (yr bil and dh to put you in a bad light and allow her to play the victim.) Any contact where she looks after mine is swiftly followed up in writing and confirmed by her text or email that she understands what is going to happen. She can't say i didn't tell her what was going on she was only having them for an hour etc.

Shes playing the victim don't back down and don't ask her to have GC again because the drama that follows is more than anyone can be bothered with.

Bloody hell. Id be so much more angry than you seem! You don't take people's children anywhere without their explicit consent. Also, I'd be terrified when BIL said he'd be there in ten mins but wasn't back for a while, you have no idea where your DC was at that time. It's bullshit.
My MIL wouldn't be seeing my DC alone again but if you are going to let her, send her a text as proof of what you've asked her to do so no one can say there was confusion / claim you're being silly.

Wow. Just, wow.

It's rude and presumptuous but it's not a sign of narcissistic personality disorder.

You don't come off well in this I'm afraid OP. Your MIL might be a pain in the butt, I'm sure she isn't a narc as you wouldn't have left your kids with her. You got pissed off (rightly or wrongly) and threatened not to take the kids back again ever, total over reaction and quite nasty IMO.

Btw everything I've written there, and tge volumes I haven't, are why I can't stand when someone on mn claims their mil is a narcissist because she doesn't like their sofa cushions (which I have seen)!

OK but flying the difference in my limited experience between NPD and BPD is, as you say, that the BPDs seem to enjoy any attention and also it looks to me like they're a lot less in control of how they come over. My mother is extremely careful when she creates drama that she does it in a way that can't blow back on her. It's all deniable, you can only see it if you've been on the receiving end - to most people she comes across like a really nice, sort of slightly old fashioned but very sort of reasonable and intelligent person - and she is careful to isolate her victims. So when you see someone coming on MN to say "my MIL is a narc because [spurious sounding reason] and my DH doesn't see it" and get pissed off because they're belittling PDs, I see someone that's maybe being gaslighted by a clever operator like my mother.

The problem with threads such as these is that there is a massive amount of projection and extrapolation. OP has given any good reason to think her MIL is a narcissist. For all we know she may be one herself.

has hasn't given any good reason"

Bit daft BIL taking DC1 swimming in the afternoon when he would be swimming after dinner as well. Of course if they actually rung you they would have realised this.

Normal person would text or call: hi dil, ds wants to take DGS swimming. I know they should have haircuts but would it be ok?

This person- eh, uh, ???, blub

She probably got confused, said to BIL that ds was meant to be going swimming so he said he'd take him.

Always tell whoever is looking after your DC, what time you will be collecting them. OP, you have obviously been having boundary issues with your MiL, so the fact that you did not stipulate a collection time boggles the mind. If you want people to behave in a more boundaried way, you have to start it.

YABU OP.

Quite apart from the rest of it OP,

I then say but you knew he had a haircut booked?
She says nothing.

I would have said it louder until I got a response...or something. This is something that makes me furious. Rude, belligerant, dismissive socially immature crap that my ex's mother pulls sometimes, when I'm standing right next to her, so she can clearly hear. Someone speaks to you, you effing reply.

A genuine error over timing would result in an apologetic MiL and who is concerned about DS making the hairdressers appointment.

Her reaction with the crying and making it about how you treated her makes me think that it is malicious behaviour rather than an error. Surely if she genuinely believed that you were only going to be an hour, you'd have had a string of missed calls and messages wondering where you were by 12 pm.

Don't be the middle man. Let DH arrange his mother's relationship with his children himself.

Seriously sounds like crossed wires. You've overreacted massively in my view. Of course BIL didn't reply. He can't take his phone in the swimming pool!

OP, what did your DS swim in? My DS doesn't routinely carry his swimmers about with him. Did BIL provide them?

OP, what did your DS swim in? My DS doesn't routinely carry his swimmers about with him. Did BIL provide them?

No idea if she's a narcissist or not, but the OP wasn't trying to convince us either way, so it's a bit unfair to judge what she's written on that basis.

Anyway, on the basis that she is vile and controlling, I'd stop trying to battle with her and start trying to manage and minimise the effect of her behaviour on you.

And as part of that, this advice from another poster is really spot on:

" If you want people to behave in a more boundaried way, you have to start it"

You have to get super good at setting out your boundaries and expectations in order to manage her - it cuts off opportunities to overstep which will be very disappointing for her! It's actually quite a tricky skill to learn if you haven't needed to do it before. And it involves being more assertive and staking out your own limits on arrangements. It's hard if you've grown up trying a more low status way of behaving towards her, keeping your head down as you feel it won't make a difference anyway, except make her bristle and attack... as you've married into this rather than having been brought up in this, you might be better placed to do this than your husband.

Also the advice about confirming by text or email and doing most face to face communication with a third party there so she can't claim anything happened when it didn't.

It's exhausting though, and unrelenting as this is her, how she's lived her whole life, so she won't take any challenges to her world. The best you can do is make it clear she needs to pick another target...

Thanks for the opinions, it seems that you are as divided as I am about the situation.

Just to clarify, I did later on in my post say that MIL is a possible narc, by diagnosis of google, she unfortunately does fit the bill, but that's another thread.

This is the thing about the swimming, BIL was supposed to take his other son, who last minute didn't want to go, and hence the spare kit. I originally thought BIL had taken my DS to watch DN swimming, as he normally has a swimming lesson straight after school, which is why I tried to ring him as I thought he'd be poolside. I also thought that he may answer the phone if he was on his way to the pool (he has hands Free, as do I). It turns out his swimming doesn't carry on through holidays and so he took them to the local pool.
I hadn't mentioned to either MIL that DS1 had swimming later, as I didn't think it was relevant.

I had actually got over the whole thing until DH cam home and told me off, and the BIL got involved because MIL Had gone crying to him. I was happy to chalk it to a misunderstanding but it was blown out of all proportion.

Looking back, maybe I did overreact, but being nice hasn't got me far, and I was entitled to be angry. I have been treated worse by her in the past and sucked it up. I didn't get an apology for her letting go of DS1 without a cursory call/text.

To update though, I have been to her house today as some of the relies have arrived and it was like nothing has happened. Although I know I will be punished later down the line.
I am sad that I can't trust her with my children but she did a few other things today to remind me that she thinks she can do no wrong. She phoned my husband and told him that she will be picking DC up,from childminders and bringing them over to spend time with relatives (she thought I was working a full day today, but I'd taken a half). She does this occasionally, again a control issue. DS2 asked for some juice, I said no in front of her. 10 mins later she fills an orange beaker with orange juice and gives it to him whilst cuddling him and whispering sweet nothings in his ear. If I called her up on it she would have said she hadn't realised or heard when I said he was not to have any juice.
Thank you again for your comments but I am in an unsolveable situation which I am doing damage control. Luckily, DH is getting better at understanding, and DS can clearly see her for what she is. Things like grandma doesn't listen to me or you mummy, it's quite sad.

I am gently minimising with her, it's going to take time. I am deeply saddened about it all, and it's a blot on an otherwise blissful period in my life. So I guess I will let it go, until she strikes again.

DS2 has

I just don't understand why you were back there today?

This isn't distancing yourself at all OP.......................

You should be keeping yourself and your DC at a safe distance from her if you think she is toxic. Minimise contact.

I was wondering if it was premeditated, is why i asked.

I KNOW!!!

But DH had told the relies that I would take the kids round. We adore them too. By not going I would be cutting my nose to spite my face. Also, DH had yes to MIL picking them up from childminders and taking them over and I wasn't having that.
Instead, I picked them up early, went home, cooked an evening meal and took them over for a quick hour to minimise( I rung her first to tell her that politely and to give her the opportunity to say anything she needed to say to me before the visitors arrived).

As far as I'm concerned the matter is over, otherwise I will be the one causing the fuss. It's so hard. We have more family coming up and we are all supposed to be spending time at each others' houses this weekend so I need it to blow over.

Thanks to all posters' helpful suggestions of setting boundaries, I am getting better at this but I messed up this time, as it is unusual for me to leave her with the kids for time for myself. I think that's the real reason she got so upset, I think she offered, I accepted then she felt used.
I did however square the details with her last week (in the presence of my mum), and later on in the weekend as she does have form for forgetting. I do usually write things down for her, but left it as the youngest was unwell and I may have needed to take him to the docs.

My underlying reason for feeling so offended is that generally she ignores me when I speak to her, walks away mid sentence and talks over me a lot. I've been told it's just her way. Where I can I get DH to make arrangements/ take DCs for a visit but it's really not my style to get others to do things for me. I'm perfectly capable in arranging things without bothering DH. I felt dismissed and ignored, and completely Undervalued when they didn't text me, the DC's mother.

Usually I laugh it off, as I'm in a happy place but realised recently that that's not right and my feelings are just as valid as anyone else's.
I think I've bitten off more than I can be bothered to chew with this one.