to think NHS IVF rules are unfair?

[kathkim]

So I have adenomyosis and endometriosis. It's looking increasingly likely I will need IVF. Why can't I get it on the NHS just because my partner has a child with someone else? It's me who needs the help. How much would it cost privately?

But Strawberry, you talk as if counselling is free.

Do you have any idea how overstretched the NHS mental health staff are? or that people would probably get a few sessions and then be back on their own? I have a friend who was offered counselling after a traumatic ectopic. She got 6 sessions. That's only just time to open up!

But counselling is a better solution. Ivf, regardless of whether the woman in question's depression was triggered by lack of a baby or not, giving her a baby is sticking a plaster on a gaping wound. It just doesn't work.

God I hate this thread

If the choice is between counselling or rounds of IVF (and then counselling if unsuccessful which is a real possibility), then yes the counselling should take precedence because the mental health issue is the illness that the NHS should prioritise.

As for people having a few sessions then being back on their own, I can't comment on this as I suffer from anxiety and have suffered from depression in the past and the counselling I received was excellent and I wasn't turfed out after a few sessions so I assume this is down to hospital etc.

It still doesn't mean IMO the NHS should be funding IVF when the money could be spent on necessities, not desires.

And I just want to apologise if I have offended anybody because that is not my intention and believe it or not I absolutely do have compassion for those who suffer from infertility, I've seen it destroy a loved one and wouldn't wish it on anyone but at the same time I do feel strongly that children are not a necessity and the NHS should be prioritising other things.

Tbh you don't sound like you have much compassion for the infertile. You sound like you're happy for them to have a helping hand to get over it, and the presumably go back to work and keep paying in to cover the costs of education, healthcare, dentistry, child benefit/credits that benefit your kids the next generation. "I'm alright Jack" springs to mind.

It's just such a bizarre approach. Someone is in anguish because through no fault of their own they can't have a child - and instead of offering potential help with that, you want to give them a few sessions of counselling. On the grounds of saving costs

Sure, IVF doesn't always work - but nor does counselling. And at least women can know that they gave it every shot.

• who've had IVF

I was told I was infertile before I was legal consent age. I spent most of my 20s very depressed and miserable about it, yes I was happy, but I come from a big family, and there was always desperate sadness that I wouldn't have children.

I then had a baby at about 7 months. I didn't know I was pregnant until right before I went into labour. It was a huge, huge shock, and there is a lot more to that story, but it's not relevant.

What is relevant is that having a baby did not magically take away the fact that I have a mental illness that comes back to bite me at times. And yes, I accept that I had a baby in chaotic circumsrances, and I am incredibly lucky that my gynaecologist got it wrong. But it wasn't a magic fix. Counselling isn't either, but it's more so.

Sorry icy but you can't seriously be implying that the only people who benefit from the tax system are the younger generation?

Tax benefits society as a whole, young, middle aged and elderly alike. We ALL benefit from the system in some way or another.

But there is a huge difference between mental illness and depression purely caused by infertility. The damage it does to relationships and friendships can be life changing - I've seen it with friends and family, and it's heartbreaking.

Fortunately nearly all of them were able to have a baby with IVF. But the thought of telling them that their babies shouldn't be here because counselling would have been a better use of cash is just..... well it's not icy who's the cold one here!

Someone is in anguish because through no fault of their own they can't have a child - and instead of offering potential help with that, you want to give them a few sessions of counselling.

Yes because a woman who has zero desire to have a child could turn around and say that her small breasts are causing her anguish and ruining her life, should she get surgery on the NHS? It's easy to say it's in no way comparable but you can't tell women what they should and shouldn't feel. Both should have access to appropriate mental health services.

But the thought of telling them that their babies shouldn't be here because counselling would have been a better use of cash

Please stop with the dramatics it's extremely silly. I hope anyone who is undergoing IVF through the NHS manages to have a child and I don't feel bitter or angry about this topic at all. It's just my opinion, the NHS is on its knees and I don't feel IVF is a necessity in someone's life, it won't lengthen their life span, it won't cure a terminal illness it is essentially a desire to have something.

I'm going to bow out of this thread now because I genuinely don't wish to offend anybody. For anyone undergoing IVF I truly hope you are successful!

You'd only get a boob job on the NHS if your breasts were asymmetrical or grossly under developed.

But hey, why should anyone get help to feel better about themselves when they could have magic counselling?!

Come on, if counselling were appropriate and a cure all in every situation, there would be no mental health issues and probably hugely reduced crimes. It's a tool - it has a time and a place where it can do amazing things, but you can't jam it into everything that's broken and expect a fix.

At 32 I wasn't eligible because my amh level was too low. I paid £7000 and fell pregnant second attempt. I had no other issues apart from low egg reserve so that felt horribly unfair at that age with a partner with no children either.

It's not dramatics, it's what you are saying. The NHS is on its knees and money shouldn't be spent on IVF, so those who have IVF babies shouldn't have them.

Think about it that way, instead of drama that's inconvenient for your way of looking at it, and you might realise how appallingly callous you sounded above!

Strawberry- I am sorry about your Aunty. I hope she is able to get some help. It a very tough road to travel.

You mentioned that you feel if there is an illness causing infertility then treat that. Well in our case the only treatment for the illness/medical issue causing our infertility is IVF, nothing else no drugs or other options. There will be many others in the same boat.

There are very few medical treatments that will work 100% of the time. That does not mean in itself that they shouldn't be provided.

Underlying mental health problems will not be fixed by ivf, and anyone suffering should be offered help. But treatment for depression and such like is not a quick or indeed cheap fix.

I can not subscribe to the view that dying people are being denied adequate care because of NHS funding if ivf. Sadly in the last few years I have first had experience of NHS end of life care or a number of occasions. It has been outstanding.

Applebite - you are 100% not being dramatic.

I do believe if there is an illness for infertility it should be treated but IVF isn't actually treating a disease.

erm, yes it is. Infertility is a medical condition which is often treatable. Which is exactly the point of why it should be treatable on the nhs. This thread is absolutely disgusting - sad that in a forum for mothers so few people can either engage their logical training capabilities or, if they're not capable of that, at least have some empathy.

I'm with icy - I hate this thread.

*logical thinking

Of course counselling isn't a magic fix. I'm not saying it should be one or the other. What I am saying is that having a biological baby is not a right. In an ideal world we would provide it for everyone, and in an ideal world we would also have the money to fund that.

You might have depression triggered by infertility, but once depression is triggered, that is with you. Having a baby might take away that initial trigger, but it's highly, highly likely something else will trigger you later down the line. A baby is not a cure for depression triggered by infertility, and we are failing women by assuming it is.

stealthbanana and icy - please don't hate this thread! I feel it's important to get people talking about infertility. If one person mind can be changed it's a positive thing!

It's a tragedy that there is such inconsistent provision across the uk.

to everyone going through it and really hope it works for you.

i know there's some painful things on this thread but there are lots of posters who want to be supportive too

Thanks Applebite. I appreciate the support and empathy and I'm sure many others do.

Fact of life that not everyone is going to agree.

When life-saving treatments are being rationed or simply are too expensive, its unfair to... Flame away

Oh god this thread gets worse.

Strawberrymummy - your views are cold, callous and so fucking simplistic. Honestly, there are some fucking awful views on here from the 'I'm alright Jack' crew.