AIBU to think this about working bank hols etc?

[OldandJaded]

Is it unreasonable to expect that if you work in certain industries you expect to work bank holidays (easter, Christmas included) nice days, late nights/early mornings and basically the times when most other people don't work?
I don't think it is, if you work in the hospitality trade then surely it's common sense that when the majority of working folk are off, is going to be your busiest time? Therefore the increase in business needs an increase in staff? I'm astounded by the number of people who come into hospitality that say they didn't expect to have to work Christmas/New year/Easter etc and feel it's unfair.
I've also worked in health care and have heard similar complaints - people don't stop being old/ill/sick because it's a public holiday!
I do agree it sucks that some places don't offer a little extra for working these holidays, but I wouldn't expect it because it's the type of job I'm in and comes with the territory. Most places I've worked give maybe time and a half or a small cash bonus if you work Christmas day, but the other days are business as usual.
Of course the shifts need to be shared out fairly and any religious need respected.
Working shifts, late nights, weekends and holidays does have it's advantages - I get to shop in relative peace, I don't have to travel in the rush hour, if I want to go out for a meal, to a theme park, a pub etc it's usually much quieter because other ppl are at work when I'm not!
Just don't understand those who come into an industry that relies on when other people don't work and therefore want to enjoy themselves and spend money, and then complain about it!
Rant over!

Englishgirl-
Yes, I have a now early teen dd, and I've worked since she was 4 months old (back to work after mat leave) and I also don't drive. So I'm all to aware of the challenges this presents. I'm also a single parent. I have always made sure that I can be available to work when I would be expected to at application/interview stage - it's the first thing I ask, I then make sure I can meet those requirements, and if I can't then I don't take the job, and continue to look for something where I can meet the requirements, rather than take a job I know I can't.
I can see beyond my own experience, which is why further upthread in response to another poster saying things have changed since they took their position, I have responded that I think its not fair to do that - having accepted a job where you know you can meet the requirements, to then have those requirements altered is obviously going to cause an issue.

User - I sympathise with your colleague, I do face this situation too, but it ties in with what I've said about fault and responsibility really earlier, no its absolutely not his fault that the buses are crap, but it's his responsibility to get himself to work and home. In the past I've done the whole waiting around for an hour each side of the shift because of public transport, because when I accepted the job I accepted that I'd have to work days when public transport is at a minimum, and that would impact on me. But I did it because that's what I signed up for.

"it's the first thing I ask, I then make sure I can meet those requirements, and if I can't then I don't take the job"

Which would now get you a sanction if you were signing on.

But I'm not signing on, I've never been in a situation where I have had to fortunately.
I am a bit confused though as to how the JC could sanction if you literally cannot meet the requirements of the job? Say for instance you couldn't get to the place of work on a Sunday, and that was a required day, then you aren't suitable. In a similar way as you wouldn't be suitable if they asked for x,y,z qualification and you didn't have them.
I'm truly not being facetious here, but is this actually a thing? Where it is impossible to meet the requirements of a job but you get sanctioned for not taking it? Because if that's true then excuse my French, but it's fucking disgusting of the government to basically tell ppl to tell lies to get a job.
Or is it more that the cases are few and far between, and it's difficult but not insurmountable to meet the requirements? Because I've faced situations like that, walked 2 miles to work and then home, in the snow, because of lack of public transport. I don't think it was a good enough reason to not go for the job though.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_posts/2792299-Guest-post-I-had-to-use-a-foodbank-many-families-arent-just-about-managing?pg=1

Can I throw something in from a shift worker in Australia? I don't hugely mind working evil hours because it is what I signed up to but it is made MUCH more bearable by the fact we have penalty rates (as do all workers here) For example I get 150% on a Saturday I think. And more than double on a public holiday.
This all means essential services stay open (e.g. nurses get paid to work Christmas Day) but if a company does not feel it is worth their while they will close on public holidays. Where I live a lot of cafes etc close on public holidays and tbh I rarely notice. Amazingly we manage without 24 hour supermarkets too. It all seems to balance out nicely. But this all works because the minimum wage is fairly good and everyone gets these penalty rates. Every is much happier this way

Helenadove-
A truly sad story that does illustrate how people are sanctioned unfairly by the JC and struggle appallingly as a result. I totally agree that the system needs a complete overhaul. My own situation isn't great, due to the fact I'm not on any of the 'qualifying benefits' I don't qualify for any help at all. We live on bare floorboards because I do not have the £700 required to carpet, have a microwave and George for man type (second hand and cheaper make) grill for cooking and I sleep on an air bed. While a friend claiming in similar circumstances was gifted the essentials if that's the right word, from the gov? Council? I don't however feel it's anyone's responsibility but my own, even if underneath I sometimes feel frustrated that it would seem the system says it's OK to not have a carpet, cooker and bed if you work and contribute, but not so if you claim benefit. I'm not saying that those on benefit shouldn't have it, but rather everyone on a similar income should be helped, regardless of where that income comes from.
But I digress, I've explained those circumstances to show I'm not someone who doesn't, or hadn't struggled. And that blog, as heartbreaking as it was, wasn't brought about because the poster in question didn't accept a job where she didn't meet the requirements.

Oldandjaded, yes I can understand that if you take on a job you have to take on things like working bank holidays etc BUT it may be that, for whatever reason, retail is the only job you can get. That doesn't mean you are happy about having to work weekends, bank holidays etc but you have no choice.

It wouldn't be so bad if staff could take it in turns to work certain days. So one year I would work Christmas Eve and have Boxing Day off and the following year vice versa but no shop I have ever worked in did it that way. All staff (except of course the manager and assistant manager) had to work all the holiday days every year despite the fact that they were usually so quiet as to be untrue. That makes it even more annoying because at least if you are busy the time goes quicker.

Also being expected to work when there is no public transport or a very reduced service. I live in a city and the transport is terrible on holidays - rural services are even worse.

There is just no good reason for shops to be open on bank holidays nor Sundays but that is a different argument.

User -
Yes I take your point about staff taking turns, actually it's part of the inspiration for this thread because as a 'reliable' member if staff, I often get given the shifts that the managers know no one else wants, will try to get out of and probably phone in sick for, because they don't think they should have to work bank hols etc - despite knowing it was part of the deal when they took the job

Posted too soon - sorry!
Yes public transport is worse in rural areas - I live in one now, but I've also lived in a city and it wasn't much better there! I didn't expect to not work though - not the employers fault that transport is awful or I don't drive, I took responsibility for it and did what had to be done.

It's been my experience that there is a strong correlation between wanting to cut back Sunday and BH shopping and a wish for more and better public transport for longer hours and every day. But trains and buses don't drive themselves, do they?

Some among us seem to think it is all right for people to work on Sunday or at night or whenever if it's a public service but not if somebody is making money out of it. Except of course that most public transport is now run for profit too!

What are you meant to do though if there is no bus or a bus every 2 hours that doesn't fit in with your hours at all? I only live about a mile and a half from work but because of health problems I cannot walk that far. If OH were not around to drive me there and back I would have to pay for a taxi which is ridiculous when I am not getting paid any extra to work those days.

My colleague lives about 11 miles from work - should he honestly walk there and home again? Should he get to work and have to wait outside for an hour or more even if it is freezing cold? He doesn't drive. He lives with his brother who also doesn't drive. He earns minimum wage so cannot really afford a taxi to work and home. He could have been given today as his day off as there are enough staff to cover but no the manager has the day off (no surprise there) but no one else allowed it

What you do is what everyone else does, you beg a lift from someone at work or at home, or a friend, ride a bicycle, get a taxi, walk - whatever it takes.

Paying out one shift's wages for taxis for a bank holiday in order to keep your minimum wage job is not a nice feeling - hence I soon found a job closer to home - 7 min walk door-to-door... bliss (still min wage, but hey-ho life is nicer).

I get double time for bank holidays, but no extra pay for weekends.

I work probably 90% of bank holidays and it doesn't bother me, but what does annoy me is when we have customers come in to shop, who say they'd hate to have to work bank holidays!

HCP.

I think people are becoming more resentful about anti-social hours stuff than they used to be. We are seeing really junior nurses moving to out-patients, day case until etc to avoid nights and weekends. This has always happened but never in these numbers or by so many at the very beginning of their careers.

The societal rhetoric about work-life balance is influencing this, there are also some interesting trends coming through:baby boomer vs gen x vs gen y vs millennials. Basically younger groups are more me, me, mean out time off and less bothered about professional obligations, someone else can deliver them.

Within healthcare Jeremy Hunts 7 day NHS rhetoric has actually been detrimental as he totally ignored all the 7 day working that was going on and huge cost to the staff and their families.

I have been qualified. For almost 20 years and have only had Christmas off three times in that time....I have missed countless weddings, hen parties,and other social events, for what? below inflationary pay, massively incensed pension contributions (that the papers never talk about), rising costs of professional indemnity etc, huge CPD costs that the NHS doesn't even start to cover.

It is small wonder that about 30% of those I trained with work abroad on better terms and conditions, our european colleagues are now leaving and there aren't people to replace them. There is a huge workforce crisis looming, the RCN are balloting about industrial action over pay - nurses (everyone in the NHS tbh) got 1% this year yet the MPs got 1.4%. There is a cap of 1% on public sector pay. It just strikes me as ridiculous that the people governing the bloody country are ignoring their own rules. Or to be precise their "independent" pay body is ignoring the rules meanwhile the "independent" body for the NHS commented abiut pay now affecting recruitment and retention but felt duty bound to respect the 1% cap.

"What you do is what everyone else does, you beg a lift from someone at work or at home, or a friend, ride a bicycle, get a taxi, walk - whatever it takes.

Paying out one shift's wages for taxis for a bank holiday in order to keep your minimum wage job is not a nice feeling - hence I soon found a job closer to home - 7 min walk door-to-door... bliss (still min wage, but hey-ho life is nicer)."

Beyondthepage -
Exactly!

User - a bud every 2 hours is still a service, and I, along with many others have had to do this. Yes when it's raining, yes when it's freezing cold, yes when I'm knackered. It's no ones responsibility but mine to get to work, I'm pro active about it because I value the fact I have a job and want to keep it. I don't think someone else should have to do my shift because they drive, or live closer or for whatever reason. I took the job and committed to turning up.
Right now I'm waiting for the bus home..... It's due in 20 mins and I finished work at half 2, nearly an hour, and it's not great weather but I have changed into jeans and a sweater, and got my coat on, I won't die waiting for a bus!

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/13/benefits-sanctions-single-parents?utm_campaign=crowdfire&utm_content=crowdfire&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter#343235918-tw#1492184094449

Do you have a washing machine OP?

I work in a university library - they've now changed the hours to working 362 days a year. So Sunday you'll find me sitting on my arse, serving about 3 customers and being paid no extra. Industries like healthcare or hospitality - of course it would come with the territory. But a library?!!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1639324-To-think-being-sanctioned-for-not-applying-for-a-job-is-not-unfair

Yes Helenadove I do, about as old as me and had to spend probably the equivalent of the price of a new one over the years keeping it limping on, but haven't had the ready cash to replace so couple of weeks handwashing and another repair sees us through.
Relevance?
I'll read the links.

Because when you said you just had a microwave and a GF grill i also thought you may have been trying to cope without a washing machine.

I had a Hotpoint bought back in 1994 which lasted 14 years.

Ah right I'm with you, yes I'm not sure how long it'll last but it's been good to me so far,!
I've read the article - eye opening, and the thread. In principle I actually do agree with sanctions where the person is deliberately avoiding work/seeking work without a good and bone fide reason,because that is wrong and IMO has led to the situation we face now, with people being sanctioned for the most ridiculous of reasons. I'm expecting a flaming now but bear with me.
Being sanctioned because you are capable to do a job, but turn it down because you don't like it, or because you maybe have to wait an hour each side of your shift for transport is fair enough, there's nothing to stop you keep looking for something more suitable while in work, and for me, would show another prospective employer that you're committed to work.
To sanction someone because they don't go for a job where there's NO transport at all and is not within walking distance, or because there's no childcare available, or because you're not qualified is utterly ridiculous, and counter productive. It's about quota's and numbers and that is shit.
I think we've reached that point because of the amount of ppl who have abused the welfare system, so the balance has now swung in the opposite direction, which is penalising those who need it most.
I've done jobs I hated just because it was a job, and better than the alternative.

Really? And what is your evidence that so many people have abused the welfare system that the necessary and proportionate response is to deny benefits for a month to everyone who doesn't take a job that they have no way of getting to?

It's not just hospitality.

My OH is an IT engineer- he works bank holidays as it's often a time that systems can be closed or upgraded when businesses are closed.

Presumably he earns more than minimum wage though?