To wonder why is it (nearly) always the woman who's ready for marriage first...

[coconuttella]

... and waiting for months or years for their man to feel the same way too, eagerly and excitedly agreeing to the proposal when it eventually comes?

PS this isn't related to me at all... been married for 14 years. Just perplexed by it.

Men to some extent have a fertility window, quality of sperm declines with age
Health of baby is related to age and health of both parents
Also the older a man is then harder it will be to attract a young healthy woman of childbearing age

If I was young and wanted children I would chose a man who was young and healthy

Men to some extent have a fertility window, quality of sperm declines with age

But how often do you see that in the media, as opposed to the continual TRAGIC CHILDLESS CAREER WOMEN/FERTILITY FALLS OFF A CLIFF AFTER 35/FAILED IVF/EGG FREEZING etc etc headlines?

Health of baby is related to age and health of both parents

Again, how often do you see that in the media? Biological facts, and actual lives often bear no resemblance at all to media coverage, and it's the media myth that circulates.

Research has shown on many occasions that married men express higher levels of happiness, and have better health, than married women, yet marriage is still dangled as the ultimate prize for women, and still seen as a ball-and-chain for me (cf a poster called bp something earlier on this thread, with his shrill complaints about how his married friends 'aren't allowed' to buy season tickets and go on 'lad's holidays' to Vegas, the poor henpecked things).

Interestingly, I read a study (linked from the Huffington Post) that suggested that unmarried women's happiness varied hugely depending on whether they belonged to a 'traditional' culture that prized marriage highly or not -- basically, they were affected by the extent to which their society saw unmarried women as aberrant/pitiable etc.

Also the older a man is then harder it will be to attract a young healthy woman of childbearing age

You would think so, but as evidenced by Mick Jagger , Steve Martin (first baby at 67), Robert de Niro (baby at 68), George Lucas (baby at 69) etc etc the traditional exchange of female youth, attractiveness and fertility for male power and status seems to be still going strong.

Marriage is still seen as a 'ball and chain for MEN', not for me.

And I think we need to bear in mind the extent to which a multi-billion-pound industry aimed almost exclusively at women, has a vested interest in women still being made to believe that what is essentially an insanely expensive party is the Most Important Day of Our Lives.

If women stop believing that their self worth is bound up in getting married or if they stop getting married in an expensive ceremony with dresses, catering, photographs, venues, favours, flowers, 200 guests, hog roasts, hen parties etc etc) that's a lot of unhappy hotels, dress shops etc etc.

Mick Jagger , Steve Martin (first baby at 67), Robert de Niro (baby at 68), George Lucas (baby at 69)
Very wealthy high status males can attract the young women who will produce offspring, the average bloke much less so

But of course these high profile examples serve to make the average bloke feel entitled to a young attractive woman who will gladly bear his offspring🤔

It serves the interests of existing power structures to have women feel that marriage is something of value to aim for, much easier to exploit people if they think you are doing themy a favour when in fact the reverse is true
Men need women more than the reverse

A guy i knew at work was the first one or of his set of friends to propose and get married. After he had done it, literally all the other men in his circle also proposed and got married. He felt that by his doing it, he had almost given permission to the others to do the same, ie the thing they wanted to do anyway, but needed to see another man making the first step.

Other way around for us. I was gagging for kids but in no hurry to get hitched. He was the opposite. We are married with kids now (in that order).

It serves the interests of existing power structures to have women feel that marriage is something of value to aim for, much easier to exploit people if they think you are doing themy a favour when in fact the reverse is true
Men need women more than the reverse

This is it, in a nutshell.

The narrative around marriage is very much that it's something women should to aspire to; they're considered a downright failure if they don't achieve it, etc. Many women then gleefully change their names to their new husband's to cement the deal, and announce their new status as 'wife'.

And then once the confetti has all been swept up, the day-to-day marriage existence is significantly more beneficial for men.

Women have traditionally played a support role in marriage - to men, their children and the very house they live in. Times change, but we know that even when both partners work full time, the bulk of the daily household minutiae (and in this, I include the thinking of everything; not just the doing) still falls to the woman.

And yes, men definitely need women more than the reverse, especially if they want children.

Then you look at other details, such as how many women forego careers - and financial independence - after marriage. Or at the very least, let their career take a back seat.

Women tend to cope much better after the death of a partner or a divorce. Many men are simply incapable of even looking after themselves, let alone a house as well.

Women will break up with men, purely because being single is preferable.

Men, on the other hand, will often get a firm grip on the next woman/relationship, orangutan-swinging-through-jungle style, before taking the risk of letting go of the previous.

Women are often also better at maintaining social ties - with friends, extended family, etc. This comes into its own when they find themselves dealing with a big life change.

Disclaimer: obviously these are all generalisations, and can't be applied across the board (my DF was widowered and well able to look after himself), but there's definitely an observational trend to all of this.

We definitely need to question this sort of thing - as many others have said, the demographic of women who are educated and independent definitely see no need to rush into marriage. Why would they? They know who it ultimately benefits.

With regards to the surveys that say men who are married are happier and healthier, I think it depends on the age of the people surveyed. The health aspect is self explanatory, if you are living the single life in the pub every weekend and takeaways a few times a week its obviously not good for your health long term.
I think if men did want to get married ideally it would be in their late 30s but it they are still in their late 20s when they girlfriends are wanting them to get married. Its seems to me that within this 10 year period they are definitely unhappier than they unmarried friends. If a survey was commissioned covering all age groups it would make very interesting reading but I do think the ones who are unmarried but have girlfriend definitely seem to have the right balance and would be shown as happiest in this age range. I think the lifestyle of going out every weekend drinking would get very tiring in your 40s and 50s and by that point health would definitely become an issue so I think someone in that age range would show as happier married.

If its true that women are usually the ones pushing for marriage it's a socialisation issue. I work with small children and while several of the girls have told me they want to grow up to get married and have a baby I've never had one of the boys say that.

bp, why would you assume that the life of an unmarried man inevitably consists of drinking every weekend and living on takeaways? Is this what your life is like?

You seem to have a massive chip on your shoulder about women 'making' men do things, like getting married or not living on booze and chips -- it's as if men are incapable of independent thought or action, in your eyes. Why is this? Perhaps it would surprise you to hear that the ONS statistics for 2013 say that the average age of marriage for men is 36.7 years (women two years younger), so men are marrying exactly when you say they would ideally want to get married if they weren't nagged into it earlier by marriage-mad women. Only that turns out to be a myth.

You get, don't you, that there are huge numbers of credible studies on happiness in married and unmarried people, based on research, rather than on what you imagine other people to think?

Because girls get told from an early age that marriage (and a wedding) is a really important part of being a grown up

I don't recognise this at all, either from my dc, nor from my childhood (in the 60s and 70s).

I think its also due to emotional awareness, and/or who calls emotions. Men seem able to be totally in love but not really know what the fuck is happening to them. IME its always women who start 'the conversation' women seem to not only be aware of how they feel earlier, but can of vocalise it more easily.

That's not my experience scary, snd it's not the experience of many on this thread (or my RL friends).

Chavelita. The demographic i mentioned who when single go out drinking every weekend. (in my case I would say out a couple of times a month and takeaway once a week) are the demographic who are constantly complaining about their wives not allowing them to do things. It may be too much of a culture shock for them to go from that lifestyle into married life.
I would say in nearly all cases they were getting pressure to marry for many years up to the point of actually getting married so this would increase the age of marriage. I presume that average age also includes second marriages as well? Most of my friends are younger than 36 so my experiences are mainly from people in their late 20s or early 30s.
With regards to surveys about happiness obviously different people in different age brackets and different demographics obviously have different views but from my experience 80% unhappy and 20% happy seems about right. Happiness is also relative to your expectations, I've seen someone overjoyed to get a ticket to the football as a birthday present but a year before he was married he was going every week maybe when your expectations become lower you are happier when something unexpected does happen.
I'm not just blaming the wives here, if the situations are as bad as they say (and its quite possible they are exaggerating) than its just as much their fault for putting up with it.

its just as much their fault for putting up with it.

Putting up with what?