To wonder why is it (nearly) always the woman who's ready for marriage first...

[coconuttella]

... and waiting for months or years for their man to feel the same way too, eagerly and excitedly agreeing to the proposal when it eventually comes?

PS this isn't related to me at all... been married for 14 years. Just perplexed by it.

I work with small kids. When we have chats about 'when we're older' some of the girls say they just want to be a mum. Never heard one of the boys say they want to be a dad

Men usually ask (according to some random study admittedly by a jewellery company so probably not reliable either) even now in 2017. So, what is the evidence for this? I mean you need to be fairly confident of the outcome.

@trifleorbust Women reach their physical and reproductive peak earlier.

I don't totally agree. Although women obviously reach their reproductive peak earlier, they age as well (if not better) than men. In every couple I know (50+ years of age,) the woman looks better than the man. He is balding, has a tubby belly, and rough, dry skin. SHE still has glossy hair, she is still size 14 (or less,) her face is glowing, and she has nice skin.

It's a myth that men age better than women.

Why do women seem more 'excited' about getting married than men? As a few have said, it's because they are conditioned into thinking they are not complete unless they are 'a wife.'

As a few people have said here though; it's odd how men don't seem bothered, seeing as they benefit much more from being married than women do.

I have known a number of couples over the past 2 decades who have split, and the women have flourished and gone onto better things, whilst the men have gone to pot.

People are right about it being an achievement for a woman to get married, but men are made to feel as if they are 'trapped.' My husband had the shit ripped out of him when he married me (we were both 22,) but he was the one getting meals cooked for him, free lifts to the pub and back every other week, sex 3-4 times a week, his clothes washed and ironed, and all the housework and shopping done.

In addition, he had someone to share the bills and outgoings with, someone to go on holiday with, and someone to go out with for meals. Meanwhile, the pisstakers still lived with their parents, never went anywhere, and struggled to get a snog with a girl, never mind a shag 3 or 4 times a week.

Not the case for me. I hadn't really thought about marriage when DH proposed out of the blue. When I read wedding forums while planning my wedding I did come across threads where women were waiting for their DPs to propose and I found it quite sad and hard to relate to.

I think it has to be a biological thing. Marriage & weddings seem to be more exciting & a thing for females in getting married. Big sweeping generalisation but, that's how I see it based on 50 years on the planet. Maybe different now but, I'm old!

I guess one reason is that 50 years ago men had to marry to get sex and that incentive no longer exists. Whereas women's main incentive, wanting kidz before 40, is still going strong.

I don't actually think most women are "waiting months or years for the man to feel the same way" I do think we're sold that pile of shite by rom com's and so called chick lit because some elements of society still believe that marriage is the ultimate achievement for women. At the same time peddling the notion that a man has to be captured like a wild stallion! He couldn't possibly want to be "tied down" of course...

Is it nearly always the woman? Most of the women I know were less keen on marriage than their partners. though I wonder if that's because I know lots of professional independent women.

I was married for the first time when I was 18. ExDH was 15 years older and pushed me into it - I didn't want to get married but I was naive, loved him and he told me it was a deal-breaker for him. After two years of DV, EA and FA, I left and swore I'd never get married again.

12 years later, DP wanted to get married, despite me having always told him I didn't want to. We split up over it, got back together, then a few years later he asked me again and by that time I felt ready and not as though I would lose my identity or independence by doing so. So we did.

However, I have met a number of women over the years who openly say that their aim is to marry and have kids, even if they're not in a relationship at that time. I've never understood this and it has certainly never been a life goal of mine, but everyone's different. I've also met a surprising number of men who are desperate to get married and have children.

DH was very much the driving force behind us moving in together and then getting married. I was happy to say yes to both, and I'm still glad I did, but I would have been quite happy to potter along dating for at least another year. I suspect the age difference may have been a factor - I was 30 and he was 38 when we got together, we established early on that we both wanted marriage and kids and hoped it would be together, and he didn't want to be too old (in his eyes) when we did so.

I think RedSky is onto something. As a professional and independent young woman, marriage was not something I hankered after.

My DH proposed to me when I wasn't expecting it. I almost said no

user1491 - couldn't agree more with all you say, especially about middle-aged men going to seed faster!

And yes, the lived experience of marriage is far more beneficial for men, and less rewarding for women. It's a real dupe on the part of the patriarchy, that some women want to rush into an institution that doesn't really have their best interests at heart. Well, it affords them a level of security they might not otherwise have, but traditionally it just creates a load of work!

DH's proposal didn't take me by surprise, as we'd discussed marriage openly. It was him that raised those conversations, though - no doubt sounding me out to ensure I was on the same page, and that, when he asked, he'd get a positive reception!

I know there are many men like this. You just don't really hear about them in popular culture. For some reason.

I think I agree that women are more conditioned to settling down and making a home and family and it is expected of them. So maybe this is why they seem more keen. Also, women who are still single at say, 30, are seen as failures, (by society, and their peers and their family etc,) but a man who is still single at 30, is celebrated.

Have to ask, why do people think marriage is more beneficial for men than it is for women?

Because the lion's share of domestic work is still done by women.

Certainly in the case of SAHP (inevitably women), but also in the case of women who WOTH.

Married men get a much cushier ride than single, gay and widowed men, as well as single and partnered women.

Many married men also get to further their careers at the expensive of their wives'.

When a couple get married, it is significantly unusual for a women to suddenly have all her domestic needs taken care of, while she goes out to progress and get promoted at work.

Have you ever read any other threads on here?
If more young men read this NONE of them would ever want to get married, as they are all deemed to have turned into lazy, sex-mad, sexist oafs once they enter a relationship with a woman.

The expectation is that women are desperate to marry. We have been together 20+ years and are not married people still ask, in a pitying tone, "when will he ask you?".
Like I'd hang around for fucking years hoping I might get lucky. I am not a damsel who needs rescuing and that is quiet apparent and yet the assumption is I am desperate to be asked.

I don't think many women are ready for marriage first but actually want the proposal, ring and big day plus all the trimmings of the mans salary that comes with it (from reading elsewhere today).

The only ones deemed to have turned into lazy, sex-mad, sexist oafs once they enter a relationship with a woman, are the lazy, sex-mad sexist ones.

Unless you're suggesting all men are like that...?

Which would be incredibly sexist, if so.

Most women aren't on MN posting about their annoying DHs - because they're not annoying.

Marriage & weddings seem to be more exciting & a thing for females in getting married.

It's fucking annoying when you're trying to arrange a wedding.
Venues and suppliers virtually won't speak to my future husband about stuff. It all seems to be sent to me.
He's wearing a suit I met the hire people once. They send me stuff about what he and his ushers are wearing.
I don't care what colour his tie is. I trust that he's not going to pick something revolting.

When I've been sorting out stuff i get gushing emails from suppliers about 'my special day'

I've never dreamed about my wedding day, yet society seems to think i should be able to pull out my scrap book from age 6 and have everything sorted.

Not here, I had to be persuaded and turned DH down twice.

As a man I have to say that I find a lot of these responses laughable, especially the ones who say marriage is better for men than women. Most of my friends who are married were pushed into it by their girlfriends and had no desire to get married whatsoever. The men hope that by agreeing to get married, the constantly nagging to get married will stop but in many cases once the women have got what they want i.e marriage and children their behavior starts to get worse and they start to treat their partners badly. Most married men that I know have to give up on regularly socializing with friends or hobbies and trips away as their wives will no longer allow them to do these things.
There are some guys who seem genuinely happily married and these fall into the following categories. (in total less than 20% of marriages)

1. guys who never went out and socialised much so aren't really missing much.
2. gusy with very submissive wives who still get to do what they want.

To the women that honestly think that their husbands have it good, or better than the single guys. What percentage or married men would be allowed to go on a stag do to vegas for a week? or even get a season ticket to football where they will be away at matches most weekends?
Out of the married couple I know none would allowed on the stag do and the odd one or two would be allowed the season ticket but would then miss most games because what the wife wants to do takes priority.

Are you married yourself, bp?

How many of your mates' wives go to Vegas on week-long hen dos?

How many of your mates' wives have season tickets - or indeed free passes - to a regular activity that takes them away from the house every single weekend, leaving the husband to do all the childcare. Every weekend?

There could be a social demographic influence too. I have observed that it is men that are more keen to marry. My social group now is quite professional; lawyers and bankers, mainly. Those that became partners early, and who rose quickly through the ranks, all married by 26. In my wider group ( school friends etc), most were married by 30, bar two (they both have compicated histories though).

For some reason, i just want to point out that all the marriages were prompted by the men proposing. This fulfills the patriarchy and conforming which i grate against as a theory, but realise my life does conform to.