To wonder why is it (nearly) always the woman who's ready for marriage first...

[coconuttella]

... and waiting for months or years for their man to feel the same way too, eagerly and excitedly agreeing to the proposal when it eventually comes?

PS this isn't related to me at all... been married for 14 years. Just perplexed by it.

I think it has to be a biological thing. Marriage & weddings seem to be more exciting & a thing for females in getting married. Big sweeping generalisation but, that's how I see it based on 50 years on the planet.

You appear to have started your post with a claim - that it 'has to be a biological thing' - and then proceeded to not substantiate that claim with anything whatsoever. What makes you believe it 'has to' be a biological thing?

TheDowagerCuntess. - i'm not married no and no I don't know many women that take part in an activity where they leave the house every weekend. I was responding to post such as users post above where she was implied her husband had a better deal that his single friends, which others seem to agree with.
The reality is the single guys can have their season ticket or stag do in Vegas etc where as the married guys are no longer allowed to do these things. From my personal experience of people I know I would say less than 20% are happier married than single.The ones with long term girlfriend are allowed to do more than married ones with no kids but still not as much as they would like to.

Well, bp - those men should've had the balls not to propose, and to break up with their girl friends in order to carry on living the single life, if it's so preferable.

If marriage is something they actually want to do, then with it comes responsibilities - for both men and women. Women aren't 'allowed' to swan off and do anything they want with their free time either - but as hetero couples tend to procreate, someone has to look after the children.

You don't paint a very rosy picture of marriage for women, at all (therefore proving my point). You resent your buddies' wives for not letting them have total free reign, while doing all the childcare, and presumably, keeping the house tidy.

If a man and a women do decide to get married, because it's what they both want, then yes, I absolutely do maintain it's usually a better deal for the man than the woman. You admit it yourself.

I guess you plan to live the bachelor lifestyle into eternity, seeing how miserable marriage is for your mates.

Most of my friends who are married were pushed into it by their girlfriends and had no desire to get married whatsoever.

Or so they said down the pub. I think there's a lot of pressure on men to maintain this narrative. I see my brother do this sometimes: he'll very actively choose to do something with his partner rather than go out, but he'll do a bit of a 'her inside won't let me out' routine.

You must only socialise with rich people bp. I don't think the majority of men, married or single, would be able to afford trips to Vegas whenever they feel like it.

Out of DH's group of buddies, one is still single, aged 40.

He doesn't have the old group to go out with every Friday and Saturday night anymore. He's latched into some younger work buddies, and is on tinder or whatever the OLD sites are called.

He's got a few more grey hairs. They're thinning, and the crows feet and other lines are evident. He lives alone in a half-renovated flat, quite a way out of central London.

It's not a life I think any of his mate envy.

And just for the record, many women miss their carefree, responsibility-free single days, as well, once kids come along.

It takes quite some adjustment for many of us, too. In fact, it's usually much greater. There just isn't that expectation from women that they get to carry on living that life, once they have kids. Unlike some men, who should maybe strap on a pair, and break-up with their girlfriend, if the idea of being permanently tethered to her is such a hand-break.

Agree with Margaret, that what men say and what they actually think/prefer, can be quite different.

Some of us share the same hobbies as our husbands. Some husbands don't actually want to join in on a stag do. Anymore than I'd want to go on a hen do.
As for being professional and independent, it's not mutually exclusive to being married to me. Being married is a legal contract as a framework for my personal life.

Have to say, I am struggling to believe the post by the poster bp300 is genuine. (Close to the bottom of page 2.)

Never heard the likes of it it ever in my life. He has known men who got married just to shut the little woman up from nagging. And now the poor iccle men can't go out with their friends to play. Do me a favour!

And the wives won't allow them to for long weekends with their mates and Stag trips to Vegas etc??? Do you think 'bp' that any man would be happy with his WIFE doing the same?

Of course not.

This is a wind up surely?!

This really isn't my experience and in real life I only know one woman like this. She happens to be divorced and desperate for the new bloke to marry her. They have been "engaged" for years and always going to get married next year.. I won't say my thoughts on the matter.

However the rest of us, mutual decision, mutual timing, no waiting for a proposal. I do know some men who wanted to get married and the woman didn't. I don't know of anyone else of either gender though that hung about waiting eagerly for a proposal.

Lily I would not be concerned about bp300s post. It sounds like none of his mates want to play with him anymore, he's single and blaming the wives for the fact he's no one to socialise with.

My husband can go where he pleases. As can I. If he wanted to go to s stag do in Vegas I'd wave him off and say have s brilliant time, lucky you , and no I wouldn't iron his boxers and pack his case before hand.

Thanks Bluntness and yes I think you have good points!

Also, as dowagercuntess said

Out of DH's group of buddies, one is still single, aged 40. He doesn't have the old group to go out with every Friday and Saturday night anymore. He's latched into some younger work buddies, and is on tinder or whatever the OLD sites are called. He's got a few more grey hairs. They're thinning, and the crows feet and other lines are evident. He lives alone in a half-renovated flat, quite a way out of central London. It's not a life I think any of his mates envy.

This 100 x over. Me and my husband know a few men like this actually. (All of them are 38-44 y.o.) A couple of them were married and divorced before 30 (no kids,) and 2 or 3 of them have always been single. Same as dowger described; hanging onto their youth, going out every Friday getting pissed and acting like they're 19, and poo-pooing and ridiculing any man who gets married. Yet they live in tiny grotty flats, have old banger cars, never go on holiday, never go anywhere, (other than the pub,) and have been wearing the same clothes for years.

Upshot is, with men (and women really,) life is no picnic if you're single and poor. If you're solvent and fairly wealthy, (mortgage free perhaps, a six figure sum in savings, a healthy pension plan etc,) being single is fine, but if you're quite poor, it's not a great life for most.

Virtually everyone I know who is poor and a bit destitute, and who can barely afford to top up the electric meter, is single. I know very few poor couples. I mean, plenty of them aren't super wealthy and do struggle sometimes (especially if an unexpected large-ish outgoing comes along,) but they do manage, and they do cope. They have the odd pub night out, the odd holiday, a decent car, and a couple of hobbies each, and a decent quality of life.

This is due to double income (usually,) and having virtually the same outgoings as a single person. I would take being married over being single any day of the week, and my husband says exactly the same.

Margaret

I have to agree with the man blaming the women for not doing X or Y. My own dh got caught out at work claiming he couldn't go to X event because I wouldn't let him. First I heard of it was at the works Christmas party when one of the managers dropped it into conversation with me. I responded with a very shocked look on my face as I had no idea what event they where even taking about. Dh went a bit white faced when he overheard the conversation. He tried to please everyone so will tell work he can not possibly go even though he wants to, won't tell me the event exists or tell me he doesn't want to go but regardless I will get the blame, or well I did till that works party. I've told him many times, go have fun once the kids are in bed I will settle down to a movie, curry and glass of wine but nope he always picks to stay home.

Not sure women are always the most interested again DH proposed before I really even thought about marriage with anyone.

Maybe there is some truth in guys using their wife as an excuse for not doing various things so if I am wrong then is this an age thing?
The trend I see from me own experience single guy always on nights out, trips to the football and maybe one or two holidays a year with the lads.
Gets girlfriend, maybe out not quite so much on nights out and football and occasional holiday with the lads but also has to balance this with spending time with the girlfriend and would also go on holidays with her. Now this situation as far as i'm aware neither himself the girlfriend or his friends have any objection to this scenario.
After a few years he claims his girlfriend is nagging him to get married. Eventually they get married, at this point the wife is blamed for no more nights out and no more lads holidays etc.

If for example there is a stag do abroad normally a whatsapp group or facebook will be set up and everyone will be invited. In my experience it always the married guys that are most up for it at the time posting things we can do etc. When it comes to actually booking it then all of a sudden they are not allowed to go.
If this is not really the case as some posters are implying why do they not use another excuse like sorry I can't get the time off work etc? to me saying something like that would save face more than their wife not letting them go.

I am a woman and I have certainly never felt or been told that "marriage is an important part of being grown up", as a previous poster said.

I think that's a load of rubbish.

Gender roles and years of socialisation op... depressingly 1000's of women don't have mums with feminist ideals who can counter the prevailing narrative about women's 'roles'. That's why you see thousands of posts on this website from women with young children wondering if its ok that there husband controls the cash does no house work/childcare even though she works too.....

bp300 I think that what you are talking about is more of a life stage thing than a marriage thing (although of course the two go hand in hand in some ways). The reason your friends aren't "allowed" to go to Vegas for a week long stag do, apart from good taste, is that it costs a bloody fortune.

Assuming that you are all on broadly the same salaries, give or take, some of your friends - including the married ones - are at the stage in their lives when they want to accumulate wealth and financial stability (perhaps with a partner to double the rate of accumulation) , and £5k - 10k now represents a measurable chunk of a deposit on a house or a BTL, it pays off the credit card, maybe builds an extension.

With a partner to discuss this with, some men are (one hopes) less likely to blast through that cash on a trip away on a whim because of a WhatsApp group fantasising about Vegas, and more likely to make the choice that leads to greater wealth in the future. He has made the decision partly because of discussion with his partner partner, yes, and he uses the standard line of not being "allowed" to go, but unless your friends are all in financially or emotionally abusive relationships, in which case you should help them to get out, it's a line and nothing more. They don't WANT to go to Vegas on a stag do. They don't WANT to waste £2k on an Arsenal season ticket. They have better things to do with their money.

Mostly what I get from your posts is that you don't view women as equal partners in relationships, and in the long term you are likely to lose out financially and emotionally as a result, although it looks like your friends are doing fine!

bp300 you sound embarrassing.

I wanted to get married when I met dp in our 20s.

He said at the time it was in his plan.

I never wanted to do a proposal because I didn't want him to feel pressured.

Over a decade has passed and we are still boyfriend/girlfriend.

It's something I've come to accept.

(He does get to go out whenever he wants btw)

Interesting thread. Personally i don't know any women who have 'waited' for their proposal. It's always been a kind of joint decision or a surprise. Myself included.

However growing up i was always told by my mum that it was in the woman's interest to get married to the bloke before having his baby. More financial security. This does hold true today. It still is women doing the lions share of child care and it still so often the woman's career which takes a bashing from having a family.

I didn't take much notice of her thoughts as a 19 year old, but i realised the extent of the truth of it when i got divorced 15 years and 3 DCs later, left with sole care of the kids. When the solicitor was arranging the splitting of finances massive financial importance was placed on the length the time and the effort i had put in as a ''wife'' over those years and the parenting work still to come. Main carer for the kids and home maker. (plus loads of part time work). I don't think i'd have had the legal clout to get what was fair for me and the kids if i hadn't had that 'bit of paper'.

Agree with others that it's a patriarchal dupe -- women are still often socialised to think of marriage as the crowning achievement of their lives, despite the fact that this is essentially a hangover from a period when women had few or no other options for personal or professional achievement.

The sexual double standards are alive and kicking -- single men are playing the field/sowing wild oats, single women are tragic spinsters; men can have a career and children as a matter of course, for women this is 'having it all' and deemed virtually impossible etc etc. Women need to fight these stereotypes.

Having said that, Mn has been a depressing eye-opener to me. I don't in real life know anyone who was hanging around desperate for a proposal for years, as happens on so many threads here, often after years of cohabiting and children. I don't know anyone who has drifted into being a SAHM 'because it didn't make financial sense for me to work'. I don't know anyone who does all the housework and childcare despite having a partner.

I think my generation of working class Irish girls were so determined not to have lives like our mothers' that we focused on getting out and never compromising our independence. My longtime partner asked me to marry him on a number of occasions but I really didn't want to get married, and we only had a child when I was 40.

The sexual double standards are alive and kicking -- single men are playing the field/sowing wild oats, single women are tragic spinsters
I see evidence that this is shifting, it seems more acceptable for women to play the field
single older men seem inadequate losers, drinking too much and living in squalor, deluding themselves that they have a chance with 10 years younger attractive women

Single older women are more often revelling in their independent lifestyles having escaped oppressive unhappy relationships
They take better care of their physical and mental health and maintain supportive social networks

men can have a career and children as a matter of course
Ime this still persists though

I agree with the above poster who mentioned womens fertility window but I also think women are just subject to more pressure from society and each other in general to have a certain kind of life, look a certain way, do certain things. Men still have more freedom to suit themselves or be an outlier. People tend to feel sorry for a woman if she isn't married or doesn't have kids.