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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Anti vaxxers

151 replies

Tinhatsallround · 03/04/2017 14:34

So the anti vaxxers seem to be out in force on social media at the moment and I'm finding it difficult to hold my tongue. I don't feel it's a choice in parenting that I can chalk up to a difference of opinion. AIBU to cut them out of my life and leave them to it? Or do I just change the subject when it cones up? I'm not sure I can stomach the selfishness of it.

OP posts:
Tinhatsallround · 03/04/2017 17:58

On balance the risks of vaccines are smaller than the risks of the diseases. The selfish part is knowing that herd immunity will offer some protection to unvaccinated children whilst eroding that very same herd immunity.

OP posts:
Confusicous · 03/04/2017 18:12

*^^ Unless you're Emily. Or know someone who's had something terrible happen.

Then balance isn't all that easy!

VictoriaMcdade · 03/04/2017 18:21

Is there a case for revaccinating teenagers against mumps? is this possible, or useless?

BarbarianMum · 03/04/2017 18:22

And I promise you that once a child with measles had died in your arms then you'll feel that a part of you died too.

And yes, this has happened to me. I hardly knew the child. I can't actually imagine how it would feel if it were my child and I knew I'd failed to vaccinate.

Littlecaf · 03/04/2017 18:31

Curious Emily, are you saying that the MMR or other vaccines gave your child autism or another condition? Sorry, your post compares your twins but isn't clear if it's proven that vaccine damage caused the issues you have experienced.

I ask this out of interest in the evidence age how you found out rather than to dismiss your experience.

Littlecaf · 03/04/2017 18:32

*and not age

Havingahorridtime · 03/04/2017 18:32

And if you have a child with severe autism who is violent towards you on a daily basis then you will feel that a part of you has died every time he hits you. You will feel terrified for his siblings and terrified for the future of the entire family unit.
I don't believe that vaccines caused my sons autism as he has another condition that he was born with and lots of people with that condition have autism but I totally understand the views of those who do believe that the MMR caused their child's autism or any other lifelong complication.

Littlecaf · 03/04/2017 18:34

So how does one prove their child is vaccine damaged?

lavenderandrose · 03/04/2017 18:40

Well, it tends to be quite stark to be honest little. In the case I know, the baby was meeting every developmental milestone and then abruptly - wasn't.

Osolea · 03/04/2017 18:46

Barbarian, I should imagine its in a similar league to how those parents who chose to vaccinate feel when they see the suffering of their vaccine damaged child.

The risks of vaccine damage are small, I get that. But then so are the risks of a non immunised child catching an illness and then passing it on to someone whose immune system is compromised. A parent who chooses not to vaccinate does indeed take some benefit from herd immunity and other people making a choice they were not willing to make, but there's not much they can do about the consequence of other parents decisions.

The risk of dying of having a long term disability as a result of one of the illnesses has got to be significantly smaller than the risk of catching one of the diseases at all, so it's not as simple as parents just weighing up the risk of damage vs the risk of catching an illness that we have an immunisation for.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 03/04/2017 18:47

I wonder if an MMR booster is something that will be considered now that it's clear that waning immunity is causing Mumps outbreaks Victoria. Especially as there is some evidence of a similar trend with Measles outbreaks (although this is more speculative at this point). I don't know how effective the MMR is in this age group, but it should give some further protection. I guess the bigger problem is when do you stop; if the vaccine only lasts 15 years or this demographic and every generation since might require multiple boosters throughout life to prevent infection.

Andro · 03/04/2017 18:57

However, for some reason the fact that vaccines sometimes go wrong is a massive issue. If a child took a reactionto say amoxicillin I can't imagine a campaign warning parents of the dangers of antibiotics. even if it causes permanent damage. Yes when it's a vaccine it's a different story.

The difference, on both an emotional and psychological level, is because one is elective and the other a treatment. A bad reaction to an antibiotic is bad, it's also a medication given as a result of clinical need. Vaccination is a preventative choice, so when you choose to have your healthy child vaccinated and it goes wrong the guilt is crippling (my DD has no permanent physical effects but had a near fatal allergic reaction). I made a choice and my healthy child nearly died... I have to live with the fact that my decision resulted in my DD going into cardiac arrest.

The other half of the issue is that bad reactions to antibiotics and other meds are openly acknowledged, not so bad reactions to vaccines in many cases - coincidence, something they are/drank, they must have been poorly and that's caused the reaction/damage...All explanations I've heard. Perhaps if the medical profession were more willing to discuss vaccine related issues, more people would have more faith in their explanations.

I'm a scientist, I can do the risk/benefit analysis and I believe that in general the benefits outweigh the risks of vaccination. I also think it's unfair that those of us who end up refusing further vaccinations because the risks are too great, are assumed to be antivax cranks with no social awareness.

Applebite · 03/04/2017 19:00

Osolea - the risk of a complication from measles is 1 in 5. 1 in 20 gets pneumonia. 1 in 5000 will die. The risk of a serious complication from the MMR is 1 in 1000000.

So the scales are fairly heavily weighted for parents, surely?

lavenderandrose · 03/04/2017 19:01

Undoubtedly Apple but statistics make no difference at all when it's your child.

Applebite · 03/04/2017 19:07

mmmm. Not entirely sure lavender - the 1 in 5 stat certainly terrifies me! I was in a bad bad way with measles when I was little; I would do whatever it took to spare DD from that. And I know one relative and one friend who are deaf from mumps Sad

lavenderandrose · 03/04/2017 19:09

Totally understandable Flowers I think our own experiences inevitably guide us. I've never seen measles but I have seen a child damaged through vaccinations so that's obviously stayed with me a bit.

Sprungout · 03/04/2017 19:12

It's the risk to immunocompromised people like me that anti-vaxxers ignore "because they don't know me, they know their child ". Ok imagine how my child would feel when her mum dies because selfish idiots made stupid choices that messed up herd immunity. And put my life at risk.

ZiggyForever · 03/04/2017 19:13

Ha!

I thought this thread was about vacuum cleaners; wondered why people could be so vehemently "anti-vax" Grin

Spot the non-parent . . . !

Applebite · 03/04/2017 19:14

Absolutely right lavender - if you've seen or experienced something, it will have a grater impact I think

Applebite · 03/04/2017 19:14

OMG greater. My phone hates me

Member341379 · 03/04/2017 19:20

My cousin is deaf from his mum having rubella when she was pregnant. A girl in my sisters class at 15 got measles and has permanent brain damage. There are countless cases of mumps in the college I work in. This may affect those boys fertility. I have vacinated my 3 children (and my two girls for hpv) to lessen the risk of damage from preventable illnesses.

Trifleorbust · 03/04/2017 19:25

I think it is natural to do what you believe is best for your own child, whatever that is. My DD is up to date with her vaccinations but if I honestly believed she would come to harm, I would have opted out.

bumbleymummy · 03/04/2017 19:35

Beaver, you said "they accepted that she was high risk and not protected by immune components she was exposed to in utero". So, in her case, it was determined that she needed HNIG. According to the UK guidelines, my babies would fall into the 'give nothing' category because I've had natural measles. It's considered on a case by case basis.

There's really no need to be snotty.

isadoradancing123 · 03/04/2017 19:36

Can I ask a question? Are they anti vax of just mmr, surely they not against vaccinations for diptheria and polio?

isadoradancing123 · 03/04/2017 19:37

And tetanus?

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