Is it legal for a teacher to deny a child access to a toilet?

[NotTheMrMenAgain]

I have a friend whose DC, age 13, recently soiled themselves in class because the teacher repeatedly refused to allow them to go to the toilet (and were fairly dismissive about it, by the sound of it). It wasn't a small mishap - the rest of the class were dismissed and my friend called to collect DC.
Understandably, DC is mortified and horrified and my friend very upset and angry. There's been a verbal apology from the head of year to my friend, who said how upset the teacher involved was - but no apology from the teacher to the DC - the teacher had since ignored the child/incident.
AIBU to think this simply isn't good enough? My heart goes out to the poor kid, who knows what kind of mark it will leave and what sort of bullying/mockery it will set them up for.
Is it against a child's basic rights to deny them access to a toilet? It seems like cruelty to me. It this a common policy at secondary school? Apparently they aren't allowed to pop to the loo in between classes, only at break/lunch. When I was a teenager my periods were heavy and I wouldn't have made it til break without an accident!

You need to make your lessons more interesting if you fear a mass walkout.

Whether or not a lesson is boring, this clearly places students at risk, doesn't it? That comes first.

It doesn't happen. And if it does, you are a professional and you can use discretion.

Don't you understand that teachers do use their discretion, which sometimes means saying no. One of the times you use your discretion and say 'no' you could be wrong.

Honestly this thread is giving me a headache.

Thank you Polly for your professional criticism. May I suggest you get a job with Ofsted as you seem to know as much about working with kids as they do. I'm currently you watching my year 10s &11s stay late at school for my lecture on exam technique so they like my teaching. Funnily enough in the last hour no in has asked for the loo once.

I'm just glad I'm not teaching now if this is how the professionals behave.

Why is it so different now?

The time a child may want the loo is more likely to be after break or lunchtime when they have had a drink.

It's not rocket science.

And I really should not text while chatting to them as that's why I can't spell. 😁 I'm now going to ask the 325 kids in here to see what they think. Hang on ...

I think you need to know about the downside of how holding on can affect girls. I suffered from a health issue for years due to a urine infection. Holding on is often a cause of infections. Girls have periods too as you well know.

I don't care what you do in your lessons but after 40 years in the profession I'm entitled to an opinion.

so you are on a forum mum while you are teaching? Great. I've seen it all now.

mumsneedwine:

I'm sure they really appreciate your time

PollyPerky:

She is giving up her time after school to teach them. I would argue that is kind and dedicated.

In my last school we redesigned the toilets with a much more open entrance and unisex washing facilities. They were very nice, always had hot water soap, lovely mirrors etc. We then staffed them with a full time toilet attendant who kept them very clean and fresh. She was able to supervise the wash area at break and lunchtime. She was also there throughout the day. She kept a signing in book for students who came down during lesson time. Any child, without a medical pass, who was going to the toilet regularly during lessons could then be reported to a head of year. The head of year could then have a quiet word to see if there were any issues. If any children were just found to be time wasting, or messing about,the head of year could have a stern word, inform staff to be vigilant or speak to the parent. Feedback from the young people in the school was very positive. They liked the new facilities, they liked the fact they were kept clean and vandal free, they liked the supervision which prevented bullying. The only students who were unhappy were the smokers because they had to find somewhere else to hide!

Your view that following my school policy is a police matter is just hilarious, though.

In which case I hope you will still be laughing when you're having your collar felt by PC Plod, then, and the incident showing up on future DBS checks.

See I love teenagers. I'm in a huge lecture theatre at local Uni and we shipped any year 10 and 11s who wanted to come after school so I could do a lecture on science exam technique. Out of 500 I have 325 so pleased with their commitment. Nice kids all of them (even the pickles). We are on a break so I've just posed the question 'Do you feel we infringe your human rights by not allowing you to go to the toilet during lessons !'
Well. They laughed. My favourite pickle said 'I would go all the time Miss and piss about if you let me'. I asked had anyone ever wet themselves, bled everywhere or given birth in class because we had refused them. No one.
And I asked did we let them go if they were desperate and they said yes, thank you.
And then I asked 'Would it be OK for me to go during a lesson if I was desperate'. Oh no they said, who would look after us. Bear in mind nearly everyone of these kids is taller than me so don't really need 'looking after' but they quite rightly think I should be there at all times.
Maybe teachers just develop stronger bladders - some days I don't get a chance to go til 3 and I've never had a UTI.

That's awful OP. That poor child. I don't know about the legal aspect, but my very young niece had a problem with wetting herself at school because the toilets were always locked, even at playtime! Parents spoke to the school, but nothing changed. They moved her to a different school, and the issue hasn't cropped up since. I know it isn't as easy to do that with a teen though.

I always wonder which sort of teachers the kids will respect more. Those that are draconian and fail to show even the modicum of common sense a la the teacher in the OP. Or those that accept each child is an individual and therefore things that aren't the norm happen and should be dealt with accordingly.

I know when I was the age of the child in the OP's question we would have all lost any respect for that teacher and felt so awful for our classmate.

I didn't say mum wasn't kind or dedicated but I am shocked she's playing around on a forum while she's supposedly teaching exam techniques.

Regardless of one teacher's behaviour and opinions, pupils have a right to use a toilet as they need to.

If the school fears mass walkouts from lessons for toilet breaks they need to take a long hard look at what's going on .

My own 'policy' was to never allow more than 2 people out at once, so if someone needed to go they could wait a few minutes, and a certain look with a 'do you really need to go now' was enough to deter pupils just trying it on.

Every teacher knows which kids will try it on. You use your judgement. To have a blanket policy which disadvantages pupils genuinely needing the loo is ridiculous.

And as I'm due back in lecture theatre in 10 minutes I shall go and use the facilities. As are most of the students. I finished work today at 1 but won't get home til 7 after this. Sorry if that makes me a bad teacher. Thankfully I work with kids who are more appreciative than most parents.

Pseudonym99:

Well, no. I won't be getting my collar felt. You have a strange understanding of how the law works.

PollyPerky:

You are 'shocked' by her using an Internet forum during unpaid working hours. I am shocked by your rudeness. Touché.

mum You do need to think about how holding on can cause health issues. This is serious. Hope you will rethink .

That's laughable trifle
You are defending someone who's playing on a forum while they are supposedly teaching kids ( regardless of whether it's after school hours or not?) Hmmm.

I totally agree with Polly

Well my students all seem quite healthy and not worried about it so until I get a stream of UTIs in my classes I think I'll carry on as I am. And I have just had a fantastic 20 minutes reading this all out to the kids who think it's hilarious. Firstly that I know how to even use social media, me being OLD, and secondly that adults really believe kids wouldn't try to get out of classes if they could. Not all, but some. They all say hi by the way and I'd post a photo of them if I could as they are all now trying to look like they desperately need the loo. Right, back to the joys of ionic bonding and red shift. Bye all til 6.

PollyPerky:

Mum clearly isn't posting and lecturing at the same time. But she can do as she likes on her own time.

My DS's secondary school also has a no toilet during lessons policy, which I understand. However, I've told my DS that if he is really desperate and absolutely cannot wait then he is to say this politely but in no uncertain terms to the teacher. If they still refuse I've told him to just go anyway and they can take the issue up with me if need be.
Surely it's a basic human right to be allowed access to a toilet if the alternative is wetting/soiling themselves and all the humiliation that would bring.

I'd be making a complaint to the Education Department about it.