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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

... for those who are devastated about Brexit, how are you dealing with the fear and depression and anxiety?

775 replies

testytesting · 29/03/2017 09:58

Has anyone got any strategies? I am genuinely not one for melodrama, but I am devastated, angry, terrified, depressed, and I feel so utterly helpless. Nothing in my lifetime has made me feel like this, and I just can't imagine feeling like this for the next two years and beyond. I can hardly bear to listen to the news, but I feel compelled to anyway. How are other remainers dealing with this, what are your coping strategies? And what, if anything, can we DO?

OP posts:
Havanaclub · 06/04/2017 20:47

Jesus what a divided country we have now.

Well I suppose it always was, but relatively silent UP TO NOW.

Good Lord what has been thrust upon us.

woman12345 · 06/04/2017 20:57

I doubt the children of Middlesbrough, Knowsley, Wigan, Blackpool, Salford, Jaywick and Hull are sobbing into their bread-and-jam in despair at the lost opportunities
Apology required for that one.
feral children playing with shopping trolleys of Wigan to experience some culture in Florence
and that one.
Reported, comrade vegetable.

EnjoyYourVegetables · 06/04/2017 21:03

Students went abroad before Erasmus. The tricky bit ime if you come from one of the most deprived boroughs is getting to university in the first place.

cowgirlsareforever · 06/04/2017 21:09

If people spoke about people from different ethnic backgrounds in the disparaging and offensive way some mumsnetters do about certain regions in the north, they would have their arses handed to them on a plate. I cannot tell you how much it upsets me to be spoken of in such a way.

fakenamefornow · 06/04/2017 22:43

doubt the children of Middlesbrough, Knowsley, Wigan, Blackpool, Salford, Jaywick and Hull are sobbing into their bread-and-jam in despair at the lost opportunities

I grew up on benefits in one of those places, didn't have the best start in life, left home at 15 and was feral, playing with shopping trolleys. I would never have managed or organised Erasmus or work permits abroad or any hoops other countries would have needed me to jump through to get there. What I could manage though was buying a bus ticket and going to Paris. I posted about my experience up thread. These opportunities I would never have had without the EU despite another poster coming on to say I would. I had no support from my parents and and only discovered the rights and opportunities I had, all thanks to my EU passport, when I got to Paris, I didn't even know beforehand that I could get a job and stay. I couldn't even speak French at the time. So, the feral children in Wigan can all keep themselves busy with shopping trolleys in future, thanks to the Brexiteers, and be grateful for their lot.

EnjoyYourVegetables · 06/04/2017 23:04

Fakename I take your point.

BertrandRussell · 06/04/2017 23:19

"Students went abroad before Erasmus. The tricky bit ime if you come from one of the most deprived boroughs is getting to university in the first place."

Yes. But Year 8s and 9s from disadvantaged backgrounds didn't. And now won't again. But hey ho, who cares? Give them a shopping trolley and a can of RedStripe, they prefer that sort of thing. Don't want to give them ideas above their station , do we?

EnjoyYourVegetables · 06/04/2017 23:21

Mind reader are we?

woman12345 · 07/04/2017 07:17

What cowgirl and fakename said.

BillSykesDog · 07/04/2017 07:43

God. That does make me laugh. I imagine most 'feral children' if asked whether they would prefer a fair price for their labour and affordable housing or a weekend in Paris fighting Japanese tourist to look at the Mona Lisa probably wouldn't have to think too hard.

woman12345 · 07/04/2017 08:02

How about both Bill? Must be why the arts scene in the north west is so rich (Liverpool Tate, Romantics Lakes, Glasgow's socialist art tradition, Northern Soul, Best football teams)
And the more this goes on, it's clear that this is the real fall of the Berlin wall. No USSR, no employment and housing, the neo liberal EEC can't and won't fill in the state gaps, so eastern Europe has no choice but to work here and send home the money.

GraceGrape · 07/04/2017 08:53

The ERASMUS argument could go on forever. The fact is that whether or not less privileged children take part in it (I agree they tend to be underrepresented) at least the option was there. Now, probably, nobody will get to take part in it.
"Middle-class" people are also citizens of this country and are allowed to express their annoyance.

As for the statement that less privileged kids will be far more concerned about affordable housing than an ERASMUS exchange, I can't see what one thing has to do with the other. Brexit will remove the right to ERASMUS participation but isn't going to make the UK government suddenly decide to do anything about affordable housing.

BertrandRussell · 07/04/2017 09:04

"I imagine most 'feral children' if asked whether they would prefer a fair price for their labour and affordable housing or a weekend in Paris fighting Japanese tourist to look at the Mona Lisa probably wouldn't have to think too hard." Why are there opposing ideas? But hey, brilliant to have a society where privileged children have lots of opportunities and broaden their horizons and get to see how life works in other countries, but disadvantaged children play with shopping trollies. Coal/bath.

Hogs · 07/04/2017 09:08

Indeed, ERASMUS aside: It's incredible that people seek to speak for the working classes like they are some kind of homogenous group. We are not. I was a "feral child" too, was born and grew up on a sink estate, as did my daughter (though she is not "feral" and has never played with a shopping trolley to my knowledge). I do not drive, do not hold a passport, do not own property, did not have any qualifications - not even a GCSE until I went to university after doing an access course with the OU. Leavers do not speak for me.

Mulledwine1 · 07/04/2017 09:11

I read this article yesterday which made me feel a bit better about things. I suspect such an arrangement would please many people, and not please a lot of others; I could live with it.

www.thetimes.co.uk/past-six-days/2017-04-06/business/brexit-means-brexit-it-may-mean-being-half-in-half-out-of-the-eu-kvjxl0d62

ine months after the referendum and a week after the triggering of Article 50, it is starting to become clear what Theresa May meant when she said that “Brexit means Brexit”. In her Lancaster House speech in January, the prime minister ruled out “partial membership of the European Union, associate membership of the European Union or anything that leaves us half-in, half-out. We do not seek to adopt a model already enjoyed by other countries.” Yet senior pro-EU Conservatives are increasingly optimistic that what may yet emerge from the negotiations is “associate membership in all but name”.

Indeed, Mrs May’s goal of a “deep and special partnership” covering everything from trade to security sounds a lot like an Association Agreement of the sort that the EU already has in place with many neighbouring countries. Ukraine, for example, negotiated an Association Agreement with the EU that covers security and foreign policy, as well as a deep and comprehensive trade agreement. This deal allows Ukraine tariff-free access to much of the EU single market for goods in return for compliance with EU rules, overseen by a bilateral commission, but it isn’t part of the customs union, allowing it to strike its own trade deals. Ukraine and the UK may not have much in common but it provides a template of sorts, which has the advantage of being provided for under the EU treaties.

Of course, reaching such a deal won’t be easy, but Mrs May has already demonstrated over the past week a willingness to compromise. She appears to have dropped her demand for parallel negotiations, accepting the European Commission’s insistence that “significant progress” is made on the divorce settlement before any trade talks begin; she has made clear that the Great Repeal Bill won’t in fact repeal a single EU rule — and that UK judges will continue to take European Court of Justice rulings into account when interpreting EU-derived laws; she has agreed that the UK will continue to respect EU freedom of movement rules right up until it leaves the EU in 2019; and she has accepted that the UK’s new trade deal with the EU may not be within two years and signalled that the UK would continue to abide by its EU obligations during what may turn out to be a lengthy transition.

What this means in practice is that very little may change for either businesses or citizens over the next five years — and may not much even after that. The EU has already made clear in its draft negotiating guidelines that it will seek commitments from the UK over fiscal, employment and environmental legislation to safeguard against what it calls “social dumping”. For her part, Mrs May has conceded that UK companies will be bound by rules over which the UK has no control, at least when trading with the EU, and that she won’t do anything to weaken employment rules. In reality, any new partnership between the UK and EU is bound to have at its core a mechanism to ensure the UK remains dynamically compliant with evolving EU rules overseen by a body to resolve disputes. In other words, much of the British economy may end up continuing to abide by EU rules.

Of course, such a deal is bound to run into opposition from some Brexiteers, particularly those who were hoping for an immediate bonfire of EU regulations, a shutting of the borders and a return to imperial measures. The government hopes that they can be persuaded to fall into line because the UK will have formally left the EU, allowing them to claim it is once again a “sovereign self-governing nation” that has “taken back control”. Ministers also believe that Conservative Brexiteers ultimately will back a deal that allows the UK to pursue its own independent trade deals, allowing them to claim that quitting the EU has paved the way for a more “global Britain”. For the government, this has become the big prize for Brexit, while cutting immigration — the priority for many Leave voters — has been quietly downgraded to a vague commitment to ensure democratic control.

At the same time, many erstwhile Remainers will be frustrated by a Brexit that results in a slightly worse version of what the UK had before in terms of access to EU markets: the UK would be sacrificing influence for the illusion of sovereignty, says one cabinet minister. Many will be sceptical that the UK on its own will be able to secure more advantageous trade deals offering only access to its national market than the cumbersome EU is able to negotiate by offering access to its far larger market. There is an irony, too, in a Brexit whose primary gain is the ability to strike independent free trade deals. Until recently, Brexiteers used to say that the EU’s customs union was the one bit of the EU they wanted to retain: the frequent complaint was that “we thought we were only joining a common market”.

Yet the direction in which Mrs May now appears to be heading points to a better outcome than had seemed likely a few weeks ago, when she was setting out seemingly unachievable red lines and talking of “no deal being better than a bad deal”. For most businesses, the alternative of crashing out of the EU without a deal would be the worst possible outcome. What remains to be seen is whether she can deliver, given the obstacles on both sides of the Channel — or whether her apparent conversion to a half-in, half-out model already enjoyed by other countries can settle the debate over the UK’s relationship with Europe.

lalalonglegs · 07/04/2017 09:39

I've posted on another thread that Jo Maugham's case looks like it will be heard later this month in Dublin. For those who aren't familiar with it, it is is three-pronged:

  1. can A50 be revoked by the UK without agreement from all the other EU countries (curiously, many of the rEU worry that this will give the UK too strong a hand in negotiations while our government worries that it gives the EU too strong a hand );

  2. are the rights that UK citizens acquired through membership of the UK removable once we leave the UK;

  3. does leaving the EU mean the UK has to also quit the EEA?

Maugham (a British barrister) is hoping that the Dublin high court will refer it immediately to the ECJ with a hearing there towards the end of the year. More information at the Good Law Project.

fakenamefornow · 07/04/2017 09:58

in Paris fighting Japanese tourist to look at the Mona Lisa probably wouldn't have to think too hard.

I spent about two years in Paris, never once went to see the Mona Lisa. My time there broadened my horizons no end, I saw the world was bigger than a council estate. I actually had no idea I was poor when I was a child and thought almost everybody lived on a council estate. My family knew one person who owned their own house and it was mentioned every time this person's name came up in conversation. Maybe some of the Polish/Bulgarian/Romania immigrants are doing exactly the same as I did and escaping a future of shopping trolleys and I don't begrudge them that at all. I didn't mention how I first came to be in Paris. I met a few young French people, sharing a squat I was living in, making the most of FOM, and they invited me to visit. BTW squatting was quite different in the 80's and the place was nice.

I live a very middle class life now, my children who be the stereotypical ERASMUS participants.

howabout · 07/04/2017 11:51

Some of the comments on this thread are laugh out loud comedy.

Loving the notion of the home of Charles Rennie Mackintosh and Alexander Greek Thomson and the Glasgow colourists being referred to as the socialist art tradition.

woman12345 · 07/04/2017 14:41

howabout
I was thinking more of the People's Palace and Kelvingrove, which as I know is still free to get in? And the Citizen's Theatre and 7/84 company.
www.artyfactory.com/art_appreciation/graphic_designers/william_morris.html
Mackintosh and arts and crafts socialist tradition. I don't know about Thompson.
Glasgow's a great arts city, always was. And until recently it was a labour one.

howabout · 07/04/2017 15:20

Interesting to get such a different perspective on my home City. I was in town this morning passing all the architecture on the bus. I very much view Mackintosh et al as sons and daughters of the middle classes taking advantage of the wealth from being the 2nd city of the Empire to further their artistic ambitions and create a City worthy of its wealth.

The People's Palace and Kelvingrove were built by Victorian era philanthropy. I tend to think Glasgow made the Labour Party rather than the other way round. You are right in thinking almost all Art Galleries and Museums in Glasgow are free entry and also have community arts projects.

The Citizens is my favourite theatre and I agree that what sets Glasgow apart is the thriving community arts scene happily sitting alongside the high culture of the Art school and the Conservatoire.

London used to be like this 25 years ago but when I was there in the summer with my DC I found the growing commercialisation very exclusionary.

(Just spent a fascinating half hour wiki-ing the roots of the Labour Party - now I understand where the London roots come from Smile)

chilipepper20 · 11/04/2017 12:14

Only today's left wing wouldn't actually know left wing politics if it hit them in the face. It's a middle class globalist movement.

I really don't understand how the left supports the EU. Especially the low skilled have far more competition.

babybarrister · 12/04/2017 09:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FrankSlater · 20/01/2020 02:49

You really need to re-orientate yourself to socio-economic and political change; because there is much more to come. I don't know how old you are but I am in my 30s. I fully expect to live though hyper-inflation. The fragmentation of the UK. A steady growth of ethno-religious conflict & a political system across the Western world which fluctuates between nationalist, neo-liberal globalist & left wing internationalist. Neither of which will be particularly comfortable for the average European. If a vote to leave the EU has upset you this much you really need to reflect on history & our possible future. There has never been an comfortable & easy time in human history. And the liberal globalist outlook of the political & business class is simply not sustainable - it produces the conditions for its own collapse. Prepare yourself.

Bloodybridget · 20/01/2020 03:21

@FrankSlater zombie thread!

longwayoff · 20/01/2020 06:47

@FrankSlater, cant you sleep? Why are you spending your time reawakening zombies when you could think of something original?

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