... for those who are devastated about Brexit, how are you dealing with the fear and depression and anxiety?

[testytesting]

Has anyone got any strategies? I am genuinely not one for melodrama, but I am devastated, angry, terrified, depressed, and I feel so utterly helpless. Nothing in my lifetime has made me feel like this, and I just can't imagine feeling like this for the next two years and beyond. I can hardly bear to listen to the news, but I feel compelled to anyway. How are other remainers dealing with this, what are your coping strategies? And what, if anything, can we DO?

Many reasons, otherwise why not just let Turkey join?

Non-democratic countries aren't allowed to, so Turkey, Belarus and the Vatican are out.

Erasmus was hardly an opportunity for the feral children playing with shopping trolleys of Wigan to experience some culture in Florence; it was for university students.

Really? I must have imagined the exchange visits and trips that happened in our school from year 8 up, then..........

Of course you didn't imagine them, but similarly, I didn't imagine them never happening in ours :) point being that sometimes these things miss their mark.

In other words, the working classes are now deprived of the culture and beauty of France, Italy and Spain. But I don't think they wanted it in the first place particularly.

"

In other words, the working classes are now deprived of the culture and beauty of France, Italy and Spain. But I don't think they wanted it in the first place particularly."

Ah yes. It's no good giving these people baths-they'll only keep coal in them.

Tbf it's quite difficult discussing when people decide you mean something different to what you actually put.

I'll put it another way - I don't think many of the non university headed, 'working class' young people I've worked with gave two hoots about Erasmus and certainly don't find it 'heartbreaking' they won't get to experience if now. I think the ones heartbroken by it are not the ones most in need.

The last educational visit my gdd did to Barcelona cost her single working mum who is on the minimum wage £600. My gdd wanted to go to Iceland this year but we really could not afford £1000. Maybe her school hasn't heard of Erasmus?

Nope. Still reads coal:bath to me. Why would poor working class kids want to travel? What's the point of trying to broaden their horizons- they won't appreciate it.

Before anyone says yes my gdd could have got a little help from a charity but is too proud to do that. Her adage is "my child, my responsibility to provide for her".

Not at all Bert. Rather, that there are possibly more important things to focus on.

I'm very optimistic that things will end up more or less the same as before.

Free movement and the Single Market (for a price), Erasmus, EHIC, etc.

But nominally Brexit will have happened. Win win. For what though. Oh yes, a flounce.

Wait and see.

mobile.twitter.com/SkyNews/status/849722152085475328/photo/1

Havana Are you interpreting that article as TM suggesting accepting freedom of movement permanently? To me, it reads as TM suggesting fom for a transitional period.

If everything stays the same, what is your evidence that leave voters will be happy with this?

"Not at all Bert. Rather, that there are possibly more important things to focus on."

Mind you don't hurt yourself. Back pedaling can be dangerous!

*My DSs school is in the catchment of an area of significant social deprivation. The Erasmus programme gave very poor children the opportunity to travel to other countries and meet people from very different backgrounds. It was invaluable. It meant that they got some of the "stuff" privileged children take for granted. It's heartbreaking that it won't happen any more."

Sorry for the c & p. I was losing track myself about what actually we were disagreeing on!

I really can't see where I have back-pedalled, Bert, sorry. It may not may not be a shame that Erasmus won't happen any more. I don't think it was the leading light you think it was and I doubt the children of Middlesbrough, Knowsley, Wigan, Blackpool, Salford, Jaywick and Hull are sobbing into their bread-and-jam in despair at the lost opportunities.

The EU hasn't got a brilliant record for the youth. I'm sure I don't need to mention youth unemployment in southern Spain, and I'm not convinced our own young people have benefited from the EU bar a few from an already advantageous standpoint of parental money or strong intellect. I certainly don't feel the Erasmus scheme is a priority for the majority of young people at this time.

I'm from Blackpool- watch it, mate.

Brompton.

I was just quoting the tweet. And drawing some conclusions!

There is a distinct possibility that in the discussions about trade and everything else, that things may end up staying more or less the same, for the sake of the agreement.

So, perhaps free movement, access to the Single Market, etc.

I think the EU will be happy enough aswell, why wouldn't they.

The opposite scenario is an agreement re trade, Erasmus, EHIC, ex pats and so on with tariffs and visas.

Seems to me to be a bit of a ridiculous stance to take to end up where we were.

But Leave voters will just have to deal with whatever agreement is reached in the end. What are they going to do about it?

I did Erasmus stuff and I'm from one of the alleged shitholes mentioned.

So am I Dreardre, although I wouldn't call them shitholes myself jury's out on Blackpool, though

It's more that they are the places identified as crowding around the very bottom of the deprivation level in England. Some young people who live in them will defy the odds, go to university and join the throes of the middle classes. Good for them. But many will stay in these deprived areas and live and work in these areas. I'm not convinced these young people are distressed by the loss of Erasmus. Loftily suggesting to people, even if only implied and never overtly stated, that they should show an interest in European culture when in fact the pressing worry is that there just aren't any jobs, not only misses the point but contributes to the sense of disconnect we heard about back in June, which I do feel was a very real aspect.

Havana I thought your phrase "win-win" was referring to both remainers and leavers being happy if we Brexit but everything stays the same, but I see I misunderstood.

IMO it doesn't matter if students choose not to use Erasmus, or the ease of studying abroad under their rules and fees (no student loan), or visa free travel or whatever.

It is the fact that the CHOICE may be removed forever.

That is awful.

It depends what other costs that choice comes with, imo :)

@babybarrister

But the fact of the matter is, the EU residents can study anywhere in the EU under the fees of the chosen country. Some of which are very low compared to the UK and have great reputations. I would guess that if a UK person wanted to study in Harvard it would cost the earth.

My niece studied in Maastricht. Got a great degree and is now working away at home. The costs were laughable compared to UK, and she got a great education and met lots of people from all over. I visited her in the halls and had a ball even though I am years older than her. What an adventure!

I know it sounds elitist, but honestly to remove that kind of freedom is just awful.

But then again there are many other things to complain about the EU I suppose.

"I really can't see where I have back-pedalled, Bert, sorry. It may not may not be a shame that Erasmus won't happen any more. I don't think it was the leading light you think it was and I doubt the children of Middlesbrough, Knowsley, Wigan, Blackpool, Salford, Jaywick and Hull are sobbing into their bread-and-jam in despair at the lost opportunities"

Do you realize how patronizing and offensive that sounds? I didn'5 say it was a leading light or should be a priority. I was just pointoungnout that a perspective broadening opportunity for disadvantaged children has been taken away. It was an opportunity that most better off kids have automatically. But obviously it doesn't matter if -what was it-"feral kids playing with shopping trolleys in Wigan" have lost the chance to see some more of the world...........

I'm from Wigan. Please don't patronise us.