Is this victim blaming...?

[MissGoggins]

I noticed this article and it made me think about the now infamous judge's closing remarks on her last trial (regarding drunken women and increased vulnerability).

Is this different? Or by using the same logic, is issuing this warning 'victim blaming' those who have already been victims of this crime?

If the former, then how is it different?
If the latter, then what is the alternative?

www.familiesonline.co.uk/local/solihull/in-the-know/students-warned-not-to-use-local-solihull-park

How do you know the judge didn't say that?

I wondered that too. But asking a question like that here gets you accused of all sorts.

Bertrand, I usually rate your posts highly, but that was one was just totally irrelevant. No one has said or even implied such a thing as men being falsely accused of rape here.

We are talking about whether you can make yourself less susceptible to crime, and whether a warning about being careful/ looking after yourself and others, is always then a sign of victim blaming.

I think we all warn our friends and family

But our society still has large chunks of

"Well she must have done something wrong..."

When it comes to rape and sexual assault

Most right thinking people's dont think that and i do blame the media for a lot of it

But until that stops i think that there will always be a very fine line between good advice that you would give anybody regardless of their sex and advice that seems a bit too specific and one sided

And obviously i should have included men but in my very limited experience if the man is gay then there is a bit if "well there is the answer then..." in reporting and conversations

Its all a bit fucked up really

JJbum:

I think others have answered your post directed to me but I wanted to acknowledge it anyway. Snapping after years of abuse would be an act of self-defence, provided there was provocation in the moment.

As always, there are exceptional situations that can be cited as counter-arguments to a broad statement. I'm sure someone will think of one soon. It won't matter. In the case of rape the victim is never to blame. I can't think how they would be.

It occurs to me that this judge, whilst riling a lot of people up, has also go a lot of people thinking and talking about the nuances of rape and consent, and victim blaming.

I wonder if that was her intention - to start the conversation?

I imagine if she had said something entirely vanilla as suggested above it would have been a 'non-event' and wouldn't even have made it into the papers, much less been headline news prompting weeks of discussion.

She had one opportunity to make her final remarks as she closed her career. I wonder if she knew the shit storm she was going to stir up with her words. I wonder if this was the only way to get people to take notice.

I feel quite strongly that everyone has a right to the city - that women, men, children, the BME community, the white community, the gay community, the straight community etc. etc. etc. all have a right to traverse public space in safety.

I think that if we started to think about the ways in which access to public space was unequal, we might start to notice some pretty bit divisions in society, divisions that it's important to question.

• Why can my husband walk through a dark park at night, yet I feel that I can't as a woman?
• Why can I kiss my husband in public, yet my gay BIL can't kiss his without fear of violence?
• Why are there areas that I can go into as a white person (especially in the States) where someone African-American would fear to tread?

Access to public space, on equal terms, is a right. The fact that we don't have it is a measure of how far we have to go in terms of equality. This is part of the reason I get impatient with silly airheads who say that feminism has achieved equality already.

*shovetheholly:

Well said.

MissGoggins:

"the nuances of rape" are what, exactly?

It's a shame when someone can only get people to listen to them when they say silly things (the judge).

shove

Great post

"the nuances of rape and consent"

Could you say some more about this?

Is a right. Agreed.

But lots have people have missed the memo because violence still exists. Perhaps stop the name calling and start a dialogue.

I get frustrated with people who try to force change through too quickly and it has a counter productive effect. I don't name call about them, but I do roll my eyes. They are part of the problem. They actually cause more resistance.

BertrandRussell

For me personally during the discussions I have learnt that I can say no during sex. As in, I can withdraw my consent.

I didn't know that before. I thought it was something I gave at the beginning and couldn't take back if I felt uncomfortable at any time because I had agreed initially.

That is very valuable new information for me to have.

MissGoggins:

How old are you? Please don't take this personally but how do you feel qualified to comment so aggressively about rape issues when you appear not to have known the most basic legal facts?

Trifle, as a result of our previous exchanges including what you accused me off I will not be entering into any further discussion with you directly.

My decision is entirely personal to your behaviour on this thread.

MissGoggins:

No worries. I imagine the question will come up again.

Of course it will, it is laundry day, lots of sock puppet sorting going on, no doubt.

I have never posted sock puppet posts and I won't start now.

Oh, go on, trifle, admit it! You an I are the same person!

BertrandRussell I answered you question in good faith. Sharing personal information. I thought you were genuinely interested in my response. Have I misunderstood this?

BertrandRussell:

We must be! What else would explain our similar views?

Sorry, missgoggins, I missed that.

Are you saying that before this case, you didn't realize that you can withdraw consent? If so, then I am very glad that you now know- but rather horrified that you didn't. I do think that there are better ways of getting a hat sort of information across, though.

BertrandRussell coming from a religious background and faith schooling I will not be the only person who is only learning these things now.

Sexual abuse of all kinds is covered up in these environments. The law warped to suit religious teachings. Misogyny is rife. It is engrained into our very identity.

To call someone out so violently as a misogynist when they ask questions is so frustrating. It leaves one feeling like they can't ask the questions. The questions to which the answers might hold a really important key to change. Change my opinion, change a whole family's core beliefs - I am the mother, I have a lot of influence in my home.

Maybe, no probably, I hold some very misogynistic views (not like the ugly things said upthread, but I'm sure I have others). The thing is, they have been bred into us by a respected institution.

To just call it all bulshit in one day is too much. You can't cope with your identity being torn to shreds in one swoop. It is too jarring. It makes me feel like I am to blame for the rapes of these women and I have never lifted a finger to hurt someone in my life.

29/03/2017 10:09 MissGoggins

That is a fair point trifle.

Before trifle started their attack, I even learnt something from them. That the comparison of insurance company asking about locked doors was not appropriate because it is a contractual obligation.

I didn't think of it that way before.

Before trifle started their attack