Why you do or don't believe in God?

[summerbloom]

Interested to hear people's views on why they do believe in God or on why you don't believe in God.....

Also, saying of atheists that we hold the view:

If x cannot be seen, heard, smelt, touched, or tasted, it doesn't exist.

Is a strawman. Few of us seriously think that. Think of vapour trails in a cloud chamber. That's one part of a large body of evidence for the existence of electrons, which we can't directly observe. There is analogous inference to the best explanation type of evidence for god. That is, there is no repeatable, testable, phenomena, the best explanation of which is the evidence of god. I'd be content with strong indirect evidence (as in the case of electrons and the like), but we don't even have that.

AguasMil, why do you think that? Why on earth would you believe that's true??

I don't believe. I don't see any evidence to prove that God or a god(s) is real and I am sick of the back teeth of the impact that religion has had and continues to have on my home country (I'm Irish).

I don't. It defies any logic.

I was made to go to church and attended catechesis classes as a child. It's made me feel as if the whole organised religion thing is just for show. I know more about religion than plenty of people who claim to be religious, respect people who draw strength out of religion/faith, but it is not for me.

I'd rather live a what I perceive to be good life than devote it to what I consider to be a fairytale character.

I believe in god. But I don't believe in the crazy god Christian's worship. You could be the nicest person in the world, however if you don't pray to god and thank him for your life all the time, he'll send you to hell. He cares more about recognition for himself than people genuinely making the world a better and kinder place. And he cares way too much about people's pre marital sex lives. It's all ridiculous. I say this having attended a church for over a year. I think it's crazy.

Well there's the irony right there.

The Christian thing is to be tolerant (same as most faiths).

But personally I wouldn't tell someone of faith that what they thought was shit (to their face, arguing it I mean) but I've had plenty of faith based people tell me not believing is shit.

So dies that make me (and anyone else who feels the same) more Christian than them??

Noodoodle that'll be those Christian values we hear about so often on faith school and established church threads, (despite plenty of evidence that they're pretty universal human values).

Very true Jassy. Very true!

i wonder if any atheists have ever changed their minds after reading what some posters put.

I seriously doubt it.

Imagine that there was no previous knowledge of religion and some bampot came to your door trying to sell it, I think virtually everyone except the extremely vulnerable would send them on their way.

I think religious belief is a mental illness to be honest. I understand how people (especially the bereaved) use it as a crutch, but it's honestly a handicap to people living their lives.

Being an atheist doesn't mean you live without hope, it means you live knowing that this is it, how you spend your time, the relationships you build etc are more important in a way as you aren't basing everything on the belief in heaven.

I find it equally comforting to know that the energy of the earth is finite and that every part of you has existed before in many other forms and will again. So when you die your energy and your body returns in another form - that's science for you.

Don't believe in something which isn't real and not possible. In our house religion/Jesus/God are classed as made up stories. When my DD was younger, she said 'if God is meant to be so wonderful, why does he let horrible things happen in the world '.

It's not a mental illness in so much as conditioning, both internal and external.

As for those who detach Jesus from the Old Testament. He fully backed all the actions of the Old Testament. You would know this if you read your Bible.

Dawn, Sleepy, and other deists do you both believe in the existence of Thor, Odin, Zeus, Hades, Anubis and Set? I know you dont worship them because that goes against the commandments but do you believe they exist because yahweh does recognise in the bible that other gods do exist, what are your feelings on this, please answer the question though it would be greatly appreciated

Despite what I said, I don't think all deists are delusional, i think it's conditionining and a certain susceptibility and willingness to trust, which is not necessarily a bad thing all the time. My beloved grandparents are religious and certainly not delusional and it brings them comfort and I do not have this debate with them, I do respect their choices as they don't force them upon anyone else.
I was just pointing out that if you presented a medical professional with 'symptoms' of religion with no context then I'm not sure their conclusion would be 'well there must be a man in the sky if this person really thinks that' or 'Well if that voice he is hearing told him to stab that man then it must be real, don't worry about medication'
And as for worrying about everyday people who are deists and interacting with them, on the whole no I don't worry, any more than I worry about the many people who may or may not have a medical condition of some sort, as long as it doesn't affect me I say live and let live.
However I find the idea of religion being pushed on people (cold calling JW/mormons etc) quite disturbing, what gives them the right to decide I don't live/believe in the correct way and try and change me. I don't agree with their choices but you will never find me rocking up to a Kingdom Hall and trying to convert them to atheism, I honestly don't care what they think until they make it my problem.

I don't know if there is some v powerful being somewhere in the universe. I'm certain however it isn't any of the gods men have or do worship. If there is a powerful creator thingy somewhere I'm sure it isn't moved by suffering.

Oh yay! My post was number 666!

@SuperBeagle I would argue that not all things can be scientifically tested. People can't measure how much I love my mum. They can gather indirect evidence that suggests I do such as how I buy her treats, see her regularly. Philosophical arguments for the existence of God uses this type of indirect evidence. Of course you can challenge those arguments if you see holes in them, and philosophers through the centuries to the present day do debate this, but they are a valid way of gathering evidence. This method doesn't offer definitive proof of God of course, but they add to the evidence.

That's only evidence that some people believe in God. Not about God actually existing. People love contradictory gods. And claim their God says things that other people who love the same God say their God doesn't say. Such as the cofe farce about LGBT

@SleepOhHowImissYou, I don't approach the Genesis story as literal and Adam and Eve as two actual historical figures. I think the writer of Genesis was using allegory to discuss his/her view of the origins of man and man's relationship to God. You can weigh it up with other evidence and decide you don't support the author's view of course.

Allegory. How convenient.

@boolifooli, yes, you are 100% correct there is no definitive proof of the existence of God that can be measured scientifically. I am arguing that not all things we believe in life is measured empirically such as my love for my mum. I stand by my assertion that when looking at the arguments for God or his non existence a person draws from many disciplines, as we do for other beliefs. The person is free to study the arguments and challenge areas they don't feel hold up. Also of course this is the general argument for the existence of a First Cause outside time and space who created the universe. On top of that are each religion's truth claims which, though share the recurring theme to do unto to others as you do to yourself, do make unique claims.

Personally as someone who believes in God I think God interacts with all humanity. Ultimately faith is a leap of trust beyond looking at the various evidence claims but it is not a blind faith. Of course many look at the claims and reject them which I respect. I have looked at the various arguments and think God is the best explanation for reality. My faith has then led me to prayer and I feel I have very occasionally experienced God, none of which I can prove, but is real to me. I also understand why many people reject organised religion, as it has been used for control, as well as for good. I still have doubts, I don't agree with much of the approach and interpretation of the bible various Christian denominations have followed over the centuries especially when it comes to women's rights and same sex love, both of which I support fully.

Unfortunately, I am unable to write more due to nerve pain in hands and will have to bow out of this thread, but interesting discussion.

sleepyowl, but we do have proof your Mum exists.

Unlike god

I don't believe. There's no evidence at all to prove that God actually exists.

I've generally wondered, that if the bible is the literal word of God, then why aren't Christians going out and stoning gays, bashing babies against rocks and killing cheeky/arrogant teens etc???

Just a random thought among many I've had about religion/faith etc

Yes, have proof my mum exists, but how do I prove my love for her? I am discussing how not all beliefs we have are directly measurable. I believe I love my mum but I can't offer scientific proof of this, only indirect evidence. Anyway sorry must stop now. Thank you for your comment.

On top of that are each religion's truth claims which, though share the recurring theme to do unto to others as you do to yourself, do make unique claims.

See my previous post about values. It seems pretty certain that the concept of reciprocity in human societies has been around for much longer than any of these deities - as long as the societies themselves. The idea that the concept wouldn't exist without religion, or that it's a value specific to the religious, is an odd one.

Yes, have proof my mum exists, but how do I prove my love for her?

Actually, this is increasingly possible through neuroscientific advances. And remember just because we don't currently have the ability to measure or observe something infallibly doesn't mean it cannot be done - and that observations should be ignored if they are not infallibly measurable.

I'd say there is evidence for your love of your mother through observation - your actions and your speech. It is not infallible, but there is clear evidence for its existence.