Why you do or don't believe in God?

[summerbloom]

Interested to hear people's views on why they do believe in God or on why you don't believe in God.....

Haven't RTFT so sorry if things have moved on since the first page.

I don't, because I have no reason to and the idea seems illogical to me. I accept science can't currently explain everything, but I believe that's due to our lack of understanding, not because it can't. Discoveries may not be made in my lifetime, but I trust they will be eventually.

As for seeming illogical, it's the old argument of having no proof. I have no reason to believe, I have seen no proof that I should believe, and therefore I don't.

As far as religions go, I also dislike organised religion. By that I mean, people can absolutely believe what they want - doesn't affect me. But I dislike the organisations who 'run' things, so to speak.

I do, I guess, but in a half-arsed way if I am being honest. Why? Because I need faith in something so praying to a higher being may be fanciful but is nonetheless a comfort blanket. Absence of proof is not proof of absence (quickest way to wind up atheist DH, think Ross from Friends reaction to "Jurassic park could happen"). It's possibly sad that I lack enough faith in myself or others that I need spiritual faith but the alternative is to be cynical (The mission: I believe in God but God no longer believes in me) or narcissistic and do a Marilyn Manson (self proclaimed God of fuck).
Given that I don't have a God complex, having a chat with " God" in my head is relatively benign. We did study the Benevolent but Impotent vs Malevolent but Omnipotent at school but then Free Will answers that one (in a Bruce Almighty kinda way).

I don't believe in God or an afterlife but I would say I am culturally Christian, if that makes sense, in that many of the values I have are broadly based on Christian teaching.

I don't necessarily think evil existing is evidence of no God, because a utopia would be incompatible with people having free will. The vast majority of human suffering is the result of human decisions/ behaviour. If you think about it, an interventionalist God model wouldn't really work anyway.

I also don't see faith as being evidence of gullibility or stupidity. I know a lot of v bright people of faith and a lot of averagely intelligent atheists.

The Stephen Fry thing... not sure he said anything particularly original there. not sure why he keeps getting quoted. Bit ranty/ straw man.

I do have a lot of issues with how religion is at odds with civil liberties/ human rights, rspeciallly those of women, but a lot of that is interpretation/ cultural vs strictly religious. Bible doesn't comment on abortion afaik. Koran doesn't condone FGM.

We have workable theories about how the universe could have sprung from nothing
What are they?

I used to go to Sunday school as a child and, even then, thought it sounded far fetched. Growing up, I didn't think anything either way. Eventually, when I reached the golden age when I was content with who I was, I decided that I didn't believe any religion or God.

I don't, and I think it's really arrogant that some people think humans are so special that some deity must have created us - we're very evolved animals and life is a happy accident. Also the concept of God doesn't answer any questions I have about the universe....it would just replace them with 'Well why is God here? Why does he exist?'
I think one large aspect of my not being religious is that I also don't believe in 'souls' or that the mind is separate from the body - it's not conducive to believing in evolution for me.

I don't. It seems to me that it was a factious way to keep people socially in line before any
Proper 'order' existed as the threat of eternal
Damnation is almost worse than a life in prison. It was very effective back then but simply see it like believing in fairies.

Just no evidence and how can a god or gods create such disharmony and pain within different religions and life generally.

It is hard to imagine that once I go (or others) that is it. Just nothing. But that's how I see it.

I don't believe in a "God". I do believe there are many things science cannot explain and I think the life and the world is a lot more mysterious and magical than simply being reduced to particles. The Eastern religions seem to be a lot more "in tune" with the underlying metaphysical reality and nature than the monotheistic religions.

Fictitious not factious

I don't even know if I do or don't

I believe in a creative influence (I don't want to say creative force because of Starwars!) in the Universe that is also in human beings, I think, that could be called "God".

Influences against that, destructive forces, are what came to be called the devil, but forces for creation are always stronger.

I don't think there is just nothing.

Getting back to Stephen Fry

www.irishcatholic.ie/article/six-reasons-why-i-think-stephen-fry-wrong

Oh and I believe human beings (and any other rational beings there maybe out there) have free will and can transend their influences and experiences.That is a religious postition in itself.

Anyone seen Franky Boyle talking about celebrity atheists? That's hilarious and needed to be said.

Goodness, the responses in that Irish Catholic article are weak - and the questions are incredibly selective.. I'm not going through all of them, but just taking the first:

1. I think Stephen’s wrong when he says the moment you banish God, life becomes “simpler, purer, cleaner...”

Firstly, not one of the problems, sufferings, tragedies and disasters that Fry would like to blame on God, goes away. Even worse, as Dmitry Karamazov says, ‘without God… everything is permitted’.

So when Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Enver Hoxha and Pol Pot ‘banished God’, they banished millions of human beings too.

It's extraordinarily simplistic and, in fact, simply incorrect to say that every single person involved in "banishing" those millions of human beings had no belief in god. And it does give a bit of a problem with the many, many instances of torture and killing that have happened in the name of a god. It is also ridiculous and extremely offensive to state that, for people who don't believe, everything is permitted. There are millions of atheists who live an entirely moral life because they want to, not because they believe in a being who allegedly tells them to.

Neither Fry nor anyone else claims that evils go away if you don't believe in god. They must know perfectly well that his point is that life at least becomes simpler when you don't have to tie yourself in knots finding some excuse for the supposedly omnipotent, beneficent being who nevertheless allows them to happen.

Just some of my jotted down thoughts.

1 - God is the best explanation for Human existence. Scientific consensus is evolution is true, but still no consensus on the origins of the universe. Popped from nothing into something? multi universes? Or a creator God?

Ha! So what's the religious consensus, then?? One god? Multiples gods? Reincarnation? Karma? Jesus is god? Joseph Smith is his prophet? The Qua'aran is the only true word of god? There is a living spirit in every tree, rock and river? My personality is determined by the position of the planets when I was born?

2 Human purpose - a sense more to life than we and universe will die one day. Alternative we just are a bunch of atoms. Find that hard to believe. Where does sense of human worth and purpose come from?

I expect your sense of human worth and purpose comes from your religion. This is a circular argument. There is no objective sense of human purpose

3 for human morality - don't believe one has to believe in God to be good, but on what do we base our moral standard on? I believe we do have an innate moral standard. Don't think evolutionary ethics explains it fully.

The work that's been done on altruism by evolutionary psychologists is constantly improving, explaining how it results in human traits like generosity, and goodness as well as explaining the actions of social species (like ants and bees) whose behaviour has previously been totally alien to us. How is a bee's "moral code" explained by religion? ("God wills it to be so.")

dawnviews

The best simple guide to 'something from nothing' is this: www.amazon.co.uk/Universe-Nothing-Lawrence-M-Krauss/dp/1471112683?tag=mumsnetforum-21

It's not that simple!

Nope. Look at all the horrible things going on in the world. Tiny children with rare, horrific conditions, innocent people being killed by terrorists who are supposedly doing God's work. If he really does exist then he has the power to to stop these things from happening and chooses not to. In that case he is a wanker and doesn't deserve to be worshipped. I think Jesus was just a person. A very kind, brave person who was punished horribly for it and the rest is just a story, built around that.

I don't, I'm agnostic.
I was brought up Christian and both my parents and brothers have strong faith but I have too many unanswered questions for me to be able to believe.
I need more physical evidence, dreams and coincidences just don't cut it for me.
I would love to believe though, it would be a huge comfort to believe I'm going to see family after death.

I get that if there is a god then he can't mess with free will because the world is in the mess it's in now because of us and once he saves one person then where does it stop, everyone wants saving and suddenly we're all dependant, reliant robots.

Having said that, why can't we just see him or see angels or something, there's just no need for utter faith just based on a book.

Of course not. In the same way I don't believe in unicorns or Santa Claus or the tooth fairy. Not a shred of evidence.
But even so if god did exist then He's a first rate arsehole as he seems to spend his time helping rich Americans score goals, pass exams and find parking spaces while ignoring famine and children suffering. If he has the power to intervene and chooses not to he's an arsehole. If he hasn't get the power then he is not omnipotent and therefore not a god.
In any case why does he demand all the worshipping and why so bothered about how people dress and have sex?!
Fairly straightforward. It's was all made up to give hope in a sometimes difficult world and shut up the peasants.

Which god are we talking about?
I don't believe in Ra, or Zeus.
Not sure about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, although I know there are people who have had sightings, yet other people insist it's all made up.

I believe in god. I used to not believe, but now I do.
Belief or none is not indicative of intelligence, morality or willingness to conform.
I believe in the Big Bang, so did the originator of the theory who was a Catholic priest.
All people believe things in the absence of and sometimes despite the evidence. Beliefs are funny like that. So are people.
Stephen Fry has not been funny or original in ages. I don't know why he gets quoted on these threads. He has a nice voice though.

The Oscar Wilde story in no way refutes anything Stephen Fry said. In fact, the ludicrously convoluted Christian story of how God sent his son to take our sins upon him (you what? so how does that work?) only strengthens my lack of belief. It's right up there with Abraham and Isaac in terms of horrible. And why would any God have to do something so bizarre? And if he can interfere in such specific personal ways why is there so much shit going on? And if he can't how could anyone believe the Christian myth?

Stephen Fry doesn't need to be funny or original to be right. He gets quoted because he's famous and therefore has a platform.

All the monotheistic religions are so invested in humans being special rather than just an accident of evolution. All the arguments are therefore very circular- the suggestion of a divine plan implies that this is where it would want to end up. But why?

I don't. I was raised Catholic but to me believing in God is like believing in Father Christmas or fairies. I wish I did as I can see it brings comfort to people but I just can't believe it.

I respect others beliefs though.

I do. I don't see how anyone can look around at the natural world and not believe that it was created by God. It's so magnificent, so perfect in its structure & form. Yes, it's evolved, we've evolved. That's the idea - it's a living thing. It adapts. You build a skyscraper - that's it, no adaption. It can don't do anything. But a seed can grow into a huge tree. An egg into a human being that learns from its surroundings. The disease is man-made. The war - man-made. Poverty - man-made. God lets it happen because we have the free will to stop it.