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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Transgender child the subject of a class reader?

204 replies

armpitz · 28/03/2017 16:02

here

Now, I haven't read it yet but AIBU to be a bit unsure about this?

OP posts:
VestalVirgin · 28/03/2017 18:10

And as for the 'opening up womens spaces' send them in the changing room. I'm still going to be behind a closed door as I'm not body confident.

Truly, you must be privileged if the changing rooms at your school had individual cubicles, and the public pools you go to have individual showers with lockable doors.

... you have your own pool at home, do you?

The one hotel pool I have been at did have individual showers, so perhaps that's where you have your experience from. Don't think they were lockable, though ...

TalkingintheDark · 28/03/2017 18:10

This reply has been deleted

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Original poster
armpitz · 28/03/2017 18:14

That's my concern in a nutshell.

The majority of non-gender confirming children grow up and are gay.

Encouraging them to become the opposite sex - and I think this text is a subtle part of a very loud and pushy propaganda - with the lifetime of medical intervention and operations and drugs - is not a liberal move. At all. It's denying the existence of homosexuals by insisting they become the other gender.

OP posts:
sailorcherries · 28/03/2017 18:14

The public pools I go to have one block of showers. Everyone uses them.

They then have one big room filled with changing cubicles.

I didn't realise those council run pools made me privileged.

Original poster
armpitz · 28/03/2017 18:15

It's nothing to do with pools.

Do you really suppose every pool in the land would have individual cubicles and we would smile and say 'ah, okay then!'

OP posts:
sailorcherries · 28/03/2017 18:17

But sexuality doesn't mean gender identity and again that's something that children and society should be educated about.

It's not about encouraging everyone to go under the knife

kali110 · 28/03/2017 18:17

I'm certainly not privileged and i've never been to a swimming pool that didn't have individual showers Confused

manicinsomniac · 28/03/2017 18:18

I cross posted with you stating that it isn't your choice, sorry.

Very surprised that someone else is choosing the books for a teacher to teach though (I know there is limited choice at GCSE/A Level but never come across dictats at this age before). Deciding which books to do each year is one of the best parts of English teaching imo. And I suspect I teach my own choices better than I would teach a book imposed on me too.

VestalVirgin · 28/03/2017 18:19

Sailor I think Virgin is referring to the fact that puberty blockers and medical gender reassignment often or always leave people sterile as a side effect, not to wanting anyone to be sterile.

It is called a side-effect, but it is not like an headache or something, it is not reversible. (Probably not even the puberty blockers - there don't seem to be any studies on people who were on puberty blockers till age 25; I doubt natural puberty will set in at that age.)

If it was called sterilization of children, people would be horrified, but when this is minimized as side-effect, feminists are called monsters for being against it.

Fl0ellafunbags · 28/03/2017 18:20

The majority of non-gender confirming children grow up and are gay

You genuinely think people would rather be trans than gay? You think this is the easy way out for confused adolescents?

Original poster
armpitz · 28/03/2017 18:21

Complex situation manic. But anyway it's an interesting thought. I was always rather indifferent to the trans thing but recently even I have started to feel there's a distinct agenda.

OP posts:
MommaGee · 28/03/2017 18:22

*armpitz

Okay Restless - my attitude being concerned that very young teenagers/preteens are being encouraged to see non-conformist gender preferences as indicative of something that needs major, major surgery? well as you having read the book yet you have no idea if this book does that. Perhaps lemon poppy*'s opinion is worth considering d she actually read it

lemonpoppyseed · 28/03/2017 18:22

Gahbuggerit, no, this is not mentioned. In fact, the main issue that George struggles with is that he just wants his mum to listen to what he's been trying to tell her (that he is a girl).

School Library Journal review: www.slj.com/2015/07/reviews/books/george-by-alex-gino-slj-review/

sailorcherries · 28/03/2017 18:22

armpitz I was addressing one of the points made.

Obviously it goes beyond that. Yes there are people who are concerned about people (men) potentially abusing that position and hurting others (women). However there are men raped/abused by other men, women raped/abused by other women, men who identify as women who are raped/abused by other men and women, women who identify as men raped/abused by other women and men.

It's not clear cut. It's not dense or ignorant to not share the views of others here. It's complex and yes if there was one room with wash hand basins and individual loos with a lockable door and a urinal and toilet behind then why not. If all public changing rooms were like the ones I described etc I can't see the issue.
If we had grown up with those scenarios and we're accustomed to the one area with private individuals stalls/booths/loos/rooms then it wouldn't be an issue.

Original poster
armpitz · 28/03/2017 18:24

I genuinely think F10nella that this redefinition of a "woman" is a concern and that the principle of it needs challenging, not meekly trotting along with.

There is nothing whatsoever that is inherent about being a woman other than biology. If stating that hurts the feelings of people then obviously I regret that but there are profound implications here and they aren't ones I'm comfortable with at all.

OP posts:
Nomoreworkathome · 28/03/2017 18:27

Oh FFS.... again??? Hmm
This is getting very boring now

Craigie · 28/03/2017 18:28

Wouldn't bother me at all, it's part of life.

Original poster
armpitz · 28/03/2017 18:28

Momma, absolutely, but lemonpoppy was replying very much on the basis that it's a nicely written book and the students will probably enjoy it, which is lovely.

However, that's not my concern. There are numerous texts 12/13 year olds will enjoy. This one, however, is promoting a school of thought that you are 'born' male or female in your mind as well as your body.

Since no one has yet to my knowledge come up with any concrete things that make an individual female - other than sexual organs, which obviously exclude trans women - then the idea that life altering surgery and medicalisation can be offered to young, young children frightens the living daylights out of me, I won't lie.

OP posts:
Original poster
armpitz · 28/03/2017 18:29

Well yes, there aren't many other threads you could post on I suppose, Nomore Wink

OP posts:
RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 28/03/2017 18:29

funbags

Some children who are gender non-conforming in early childhood grow up to become transgender adults (persistently identifying with a gender that is different from their birth sex), and others do not. Many gender non-conforming children grow up to identify with a gay, lesbian, or bisexual sexual orientation

I think they were referring to various articles which echo the above

muttrat · 28/03/2017 18:33

I'd be interested to see how girls are describes and represented in the novel..

MommaGee · 28/03/2017 18:35

My point is d's the book go that far? Accordingly to Lemon no.

As for the can you grow up feeling you're in the wrong body, I dunno. I never did. But I've heard convincing testimony from people who strongly believe they did. How can I be right and they wrong? Leaving aside definitions, surely opening up a discussion with tweens about the feelings etc not the surgery is a positive thing

Goprogo · 28/03/2017 18:40

Gosh there's a lot of bored people on this thread aren't there? There's a very valid discussion going on - join in, add your views but all this virtual eye rolling adds nothing.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 28/03/2017 18:41

the main issue that George struggles with is that he just wants his mum to listen to what he's been trying to tell her (that he is a girl)

But George is not a girl Confused I would hope that his mum is explaining to him that he is a boy and will always be a boy, but that doesn't mean he has to like or do certain things to be a boy. I suspect that might not be in the book though?

VestalVirgin · 28/03/2017 18:43

You genuinely think people would rather be trans than gay? You think this is the easy way out for confused adolescents?

It certainly is in Iran. In fact, people there aren't even asked whether they'd rather be trans, they are forced to be trans.

And with children, I do think that many parents who claim their children are transgender are just homophobic and dreading the possibility that their boy who plays with dolls might grow up to be gay.

Without homophobia, being gay would be clearly preferrable to having major surgery. But with homophobia and misogyny, it is no wonder that many women see transition as a way out. (And I have proof for this. Don't try to claim it doesn't happen. I can link to blogs by detransitioned women who thought trans was the easy way out and have since realized that no, it is not.)