To think this mum is being a tad PFB about prospective nurseries?

[SamanthaBrique]

Met a mum at soft play recently who's due to go back to work in a few months and is looking at local nurseries to send her DS to. However she is concerned that there aren't many Ofsted Outstanding nurseries in our area and that her child might be scarred for life (her words, not mine) by going to one that's "only" rated Good.

AIBU to think this is a bit PFB? Outstanding nurseries are great if there's one nearby but in my experience, Good has been great for my kids and they've got no scars of any kind!

hard to get excited about someone wanting to do the best for their child, however they're measuring that and whether we agree with it! My DC have been at a couple of outstanding nurseries, one really was and the other one, meh. She's doing her best as we all are.

My ds went to an outstanding rated nursery and it was awful - after a long list of issues I took him out, found another and didn't look back. He is in another Outstanding rated one but this one deserves it's status. He attends a 'good' preschool also which is fantastic as he has extra needs too (SALT and social issues). Will be going solely into preschool once childcare needs are different. It is attached to a 'good' first school and I am looking for him to attend this one as I am confident it is a great start for him. The rating doesn't guarantee a great nursery/setting!

My DD's amazing nursery was 'only' rated good as they "missed an opportunity to talk about volume and capacity" during an activity which involved hand milking a pretend cow. They were 2 and 3 yo's ffs! I take a lot less notice of Ofsted reports now.

This.

FWIW I was so stressed about putting my PFB in nursery that I didn't. My mum moved up to us and had him 4 days a week, dh compressed his hours and had him 1 day a week, whilst I completed my contract and then gave up work til he and his brother were in school. Now that's being precious. And I've never regretted it, my only regret was going back in the first place.

"Who would put their child in the worst school, or even similar school but in the worst area (if that even exists)! It's ridiculous to even pretend people do that. People big talk and ideas about "equality" and political correctness bladibla completely disappear in the real world."

Its not ridiculous at all Abs. People do that. I did that.
I grew up on council estates and I honestly don't have a problem with my children being in working class environments. There are positive aspects. I'm on a lower middle class wage now and could live in a different environment but I've chosen not to.
I mix all the time with Mums on similar money to me who are paying over the odds for housing in order to keep their children in an environment dominated by middle class people. I think they are acting out of ignorance and fear and wasting their money.
My kid goes to the nursery school on the estate. And it is brilliant. So yes, there are good nurseries and schools in rough areas
Our area is among the most deprived in my city and I would guess that the families using the nursery are among the poorest on the estate. (because the hours they offer and pretty much incompatible with full time work!- but that's another thread)
Yes there are kids with behavioural problems, there are kids with mild developmental delay, there are kids with limited speech when they start. Guess what? The brilliant teachers are perfectly capable of nurturing those needs and still nurturing my kids pencil holding technique and passionate interest in dinosaurs. They are dedicated to all the kids.
When anxious middle class Mums ask me to recommend a gentle child centred nursery- I always recommend it. Generally they have never heard of it and none of them have taken my advice so far.
I've come to the conclusion that these Mums are not basing their decisions on a rational assessment of the nursery's available. Instead they are chasing a limited number of places in a small number of nurseries that have gained a certain reputation in their relatively limited social circle. Its not based on anything except the middle class tendency to use education as a means to both gain and display social status.

Completely missing the point of the thread but if she goes back the work in a few months and hasn't signed up already she probably won't get into the outstanding ones anyway...

itsonlysubterfuge Tue 28-Mar-17 11:23:56

"All I am doing is being concerned that I give her the best I can. Isn't it more important that it comes from love and protective instinct?"

Absolutely nothing wrong with home schooling and don't for a moment think I am criticising you for that. But you might want to think a bit about your above statement and where that might take you. Is really "coming from a place of love and protective instinct" a guarantee that your approach is going to provide what a child needs?

What if that thought leads a parent to keep her child indoors all the time and never allow her to climb trees or run or play outdoor games for fear that she would hurt herself. Surely that would damage her health?

Most home schoolers are very keen to provide social interaction with other children because, like climbing and running around, it is an essential part of development. Learning to share from your kind and patient parents is a totally different kettle of fish from learning to get on with someone who is at the same stage of development as yourself and can't be expected to make special adjustments.

One of the great joys of having older children is not to reflect how you have been able to protect them from anything that could hurt them but to see how they are growing into people who can cope. And the occasional tussle with another obdurate 3yo is very much part of that development. Like falling over and grazing your knees or getting stuck half-way up a tree. Growing up is very much about building resilience.

Whether a setting is good or outstanding, you can only tell whether it will suit your child by visiting several settings. The preschool ds went to was Good, and there was one in town rated outstanding. He went to the Good one because they didn't balk at having to be very flexible and work with me and outside professionals, as he is disabled. The other settings instantly gave the impression that it would be a massive ballache to have ds there. The setting we chose was amazing for ds.

It's a bit odd - if she believes the Ofsted rankings, why would it matter if Outstanding was full of 'council estate kids'? By that criteria those nurseries are the 'best'...

It's all a bit odd because it's bullshit I presume.

Allington, it's private Outstanding she wants, not local authority. I did tell her that Ofsted is only based on one day's observation but she wasn't convinced.

OP did you share your experiences with her? Offer any sound advice?

Sounds to me like she was eating herself up and was seeking bit of reassurance from somebody she may have viewed as a bit more seasoned in these matters? Maybe her nerves have led her to the conclusion that private nurseries are automatically "best" and wanted some positive reactions from you?

Yes, I did - told her about some Good nurseries in the area and mentioned the LA Outstanding nurseries, but once she made her comment about estate kids I was a bit Because some LA nurseries charge based on income she seems convinced that they attract parents on benefits or from the local estates, and doesn't want her child mixing with those kids.

Tbh I think she was just silly to voice it. It's probably a feeling many more people have.

Kind of similar - we're in the process of moving areas because ds1 is starting secondary school soon. His primary is fab, but the comp is average to poor. It's got about 50% of FSM and achieving 10 GCSE's at grade C is seen as excellent because the general area (deprived, low income) expectation is so low.

The real reason we're moving is because I don't feel the school is good enough for my dc (hugely snobby but my dc come first). I'm friends with lots of school parents though and I would never ever voice it to them because I have more social graces than to be so stupid as to insult the school they're all sending their own dc to.

OK, so she's got herself in a bit of a stew, clearly wants to her best for PFB (don't we all?) and like most of us starting out as parents, has little idea how the game actually works....
I will grant you OP, she clearly hasn't met many people living on benefits, maybe she watches too many Channel 5 documentaries who knows?

I cannot help feeling she for whatever reason was looking for some real guidance, she's clearly anxious. I suppose I understand your responses to her, but I do find it a bit unkind that you are keen to discuss the whole thing on here without her knowledge, but didn't voice it to her in person?

Going back to work is a huge deal. Leaving PFB is a massive deal. Finding the "right/best/outstandingly rated" nursery is a jungle-and quite terrifying- give her a break.

Nothing wrong with being nervous about returning to work.

Quite a bit wrong with writing off other people's children just because of where they live.

Dc went to nursery and school with children from the local council estate. They were ... children

It's probably a feeling many more people have.

It may well be, but that doesn't make it any the less arsey a view.

I think these "arsey views" have been further exacerbated in recent years with all the media coverage of those in receipt of benefits and in council housing, it has not been great. I also think that the circles a great deal of people move in these days mean that they unconsciously live in their own bubbles and are terrified of anything outside or different to them. I have a lot of acquaintances who would spew similar statements, but quite openly admit when challenged that they don't know anybody living in these situations and then concede that "it must be quite hard"

I read the OP initially and just thought this was a new Mum struggling with the idea of leaving her PFB and going back to work. I am not comfortable with the fact she is being effectively hung out to dry here with no recourse. Yes she voiced views different to mine, but clearly is at the beginning of the uphill struggle that we all know parenting to be. I say cut her some slack, judge less and consider better how she could have been supported.

and what about those MNers who live on council estates? whose children she is talking about? should they also cut this poor woman a bit of slack and not hang her out to dry just because she has "different views"?

I've worked in both good and outstanding g nurseries over the years and that is exactly why I won't be sending my PFB to one.

I came across this recently when a friend said she wouldn't use a certain pre school as she was worried about the people using it being from certain council estates. I was dumbstruck as I am from one of those estates myself originally.

Because some LA nurseries charge based on income she seems convinced that they attract parents on benefits or from the local estates, and doesn't want her child mixing with those kids

What a twat! DH went to private school full of naice families - drugs were rife, I went to a comp, we mostly couldn't afford drugs and what alcohol we did manage to get our hands on was shared amongst 7 of us! 1 cigarette would do 3 of us! It was way tamer than DHs school!

I only looked at outstanding nurseries for my twins. Why wouldn't I? I wanted them to go to the best nursery and the only "official" guide to ratings is ofsted.

Once you've experienced nurseries and schools you realise that ofsted is just a snapshot, but it's hardly crime of the century for an anxious new mother to be looking for the best for her child. It's like everything child rearing - you learn what constitutes 'the best' as you go.

some LA nurseries charge based on income

I wouldn't put my kids there either, that's a joke. Why should we be charged more than other families! We already pay more tax, have no help and we should pay more? Absolutely ridiculous and disgusting. I would understand if special circumstances were taken into account (nurses, policemen.. people we really need), but working more than someone who chooses to be part-time or 9-to-5 and then being charged more?

Mine went to an outstanding one where he caught every bug going, managed to abscond and be found in the kitchen (ovens, kettles... poor PFB), ate grubs, got into fights (nose bleeds, bumps...). She's in for a treat, but many of us have been her at some point.