To feel for my friend who is very anxious about how she will afford twins.

[BobDylansUnderpants]

My friend is due twins in the next few months the and she is beside herself with worry about how her and her DH will cope financially. She would never have aborted as that was never an option for her for religious reasons.

She lives in what i would consider a small house with her DH and 2DCs. The DCs share a room and there is a small box room which would just about fit a single bed. The fact her house is too small is the least of her worries.

She says she just about can manage the mortgage payments and living costs with just the 4 of them and has little left over for savings. They hardly go on holiday and live within their means.

She is really worried about how she will manage with paying for the gazillion nappies, milk, baby clothes every few months and the general cost of kids.

She told me that she has just missed out on tax credits which she won't get anymore for the twins as the government only pay for 2 kids. She could have got an additional 5k a year which she says would have really helped alot. ( Not sure if the figure is correct)

I don't really know what to suggest for her and wondered if anyone has had similar experience of unexpectedly having lots more kids and how you managed financially. It feel such a shame that the government have stopped the tax credits as it would have really helped her family and no doubt others in similar circumstances.

My last child turned out to be twins. I breastfed and cloth nappied them. They wore hand-me down clothes and I used a second hand double buggy. Lots of people gave me Boots/Mothercare vouchers instead of gifts when they were born as they knew I had stuff from the older kids so the costs were a lot less than a lot of people spend on a single baby. Breast-feeding twins is perfectly do-able, especially if she has done it before, but she will need to be dedicated and seek out support as needed, as most of the HCPs I encountered expected me to be formula feeding. The big expense with twins is childcare so she might need to find work that fits around her OH's working hours so that they can juggle child care.

Larry they would pay for both twins if they were child two and three but not if they are child three and four.

If they are child three and four they will not pay for child three, but will pay for child four.

There's still time to access support for assistance, like charities, like multiples board here, moneysaving expert forum for doing a budget, looking into building work, buying secondhand things.

Can you host a baby shower for her? Or start a whipround among other friends for large ticket items?

It's a done deal now. The policy is changed and that's Tories for you, they will never change it back.

But there's hopefully ways to help them and that they can help themselves.

No Larry they won't pay for child four because it is a third pregnancy. They will only pay for child two and three because it is a second pregnancy.

The Tories did do a big U turn on the tax credits policy last year when they reversed plans to make big cuts so I guess there could still be some hope this time ?

A girl at work has twins and Clarks do an offer with Tamba to get reductions on shoes for twins but obviously, it's still Clarkes prices. Their big expense was a larger car to fit the 3 kids and the double buggy, has your friend factored that in?

Breastfeeding is an option hopefully for her, that will keep some costs down. My twins were on special formula in addition to breast milk, and that was on prescription.
Not sure if your district do it but here they have breastfeeding vouchers, the longer you breastfeed, you accumulate vouchers that could then be used at supermarkets.

Nappies can add up but if you can find someone that has a Costco card they do huge boxes of Pampers there. Failing that we've found ASDA and Mamia nappies to be good cheaper alternatives.

I've sold bundles of clothes on twin mum selling pages on Facebook, or eBay. So she could pick up bundles of clothes that way to keep costs down. Likewise there are lots of prams and other accessories on the Facebook selling page, as it's fellow twin mums, people seem to let things go reasonably, everyone appreciates how quickly these things can add up.

I've only recently donated my twin feeding pillow and carrier, wish I still had it as I would've have passed it on. Realise this isn't very helpful, sorry.

Don't get sucked in to all the twin specialities, they need very little. One thing I found very useful were bouncy chairs, this made (bottle) feeding a lot easier, it also kept them confined and happy if I was having to see to the other. Once again these are things she could hopefully find second hand.

Childcare will be a big one it certainly was a factor in me staying at home for 12 years. Even with 2 not needing childcare now childcare for two is so expensive unless you have helpful family. My DH works at home 2 days a week and I'll be in a term time only job, holiday clubs are eyewateringly expensive too.

I think the OPs friend has to sit down and think of ways to really cut costs down, definitely breastfeeding, getting big items second hand (a lot of people would gladly give away things).

Another big one is transport, a 7 seater car is expensive both in petrol and in tax. We only did UK holidays/days away when the DC were younger too so a car was essential.

I do appreciate how she must be feeling, with each of my pregnancies I have worried about it being twins, because we simply would never have been able to afford 2 in FT nursery (£2k a month) at once as well as the mortgage. We have left 4 years between children so we are not paying fees like this. Our back up plan if this pregnancy had been twins would have been to sell the house and downsize, so one of us could have given up work.

However, we did have a back up plan and we were careful not to have an unplanned pregnancy. If I got pregnant accidentally after this baby is born, for the sake of out existing children we would more than likely make the difficult decision to have a termination. Your friend had this option open to her, and has chosen not to take it. Now of course no one should ever feel like they have to have a termination when they don't want to, but equally they can't then hold the government responsible for not funding the choices they have made.

If her house and financial situation is as tight as you say then she and her dh should have been a whole lot more careful about contraception. She gets no sympathy from me.

Is the purpose of this post to elicit sympathy and money from nice mumsnetters who will offer to help?

Why do you think that hard working families should pay more in taxes just to subsidise your friends procreation?

When are the twins due? My DTwins will be moving up car seats soon and I'd be willing to let your friend have these ones if it would help?

'The Tories did do a big U turn on the tax credits policy last year when they reversed plans to make big cuts so I guess there could still be some hope this time ?'

It's coming into effect a week from tomorrow and there's no huge protest to it on the benches so I wouldn't hold my breath they will U-turn on this. Same with UC. Just wait till that hits!!

Look, the big news for next week in Parliament will be that TM will trigger Article 50 on Wed.

This policy is a done deal.

I think the thread was started to start another debate on the government's decision to limit tax credits to 2 children ( as if there hasn't been enough already).

I'd cloth nappy with the cheaper nappies and also breastfeed. As for the clothes I'd get clothing lots from eBay.
As for the child tax credits if they carried on over the twenty years if they did education until then it would be 100k all in for tax payer over twenty years so I can understand the policy change.

Lots of people have to limit the size of their families because they cannot afford to support more, pay childcare or reduce their hours of work.
Me included.

If her religion prevents her using adequate contraception, she should ask her, no doubt very rich church, to help out.

Yes Expat - sadly I do think it is a done deal this time. I do think it will be the children that suffer though. There is only so much you can cut back on. I'm not sure how I feel about the policy, there seems to be a lot of support for it. Unfortunately many of the types of families that go on to big families and unplanned pregnancies are already living in chaotic situations on already low incomes and there are already multiple problems and they are the type of families that need the most help. Op I'm not saying your friend falls into this category.

I can understand it too and at least child benefit is staying.

Agree about bfing, it is daunting with twins but TBH so is the idea of juggling two hungry screaming babies while trying to boil a kettle etc

I can't imagine bf twins whilst watching other young kids . When my dc4 was born I had 3 dc's aged 5,4 and 2yrs ( all boys ). I did manage to bf her but it was hard having to keep stopping and starting because one of the others was up to mischief or needed the potty or was bashing his brother over the head with something. I can't imagine doing it with twins !!

I think it's normal to feel for a friend who is in a difficult situation. It is hard when money is tight. I second those saying get in touch with relevant charities and see if they have any advice. They could also see CAB or similar to make sure they are claiming everything they are entitled to.

However, my feelings on this are that it the state should support a reasonable sized family- 2 seems a reasonable size to me. If a couple or individual want a larger family (whether design or accident) then you must fund it yourself. It's about asking people to take responsibility for their decision- i.e. to have the family you have the resources (financial and emotional) to support. Whilst recognising there can be contraceptive failures (though far more common than true contraceptive failure, is failure to use contraceptive correctly at all times), it is generally true that conception can be prevented. Contraception is available free at point of need, as is MAP.

I have a set income- my wage. If I want to have more children, my wage will not be increased to take into account that I have to provide for another child. I will have to fund additional expense out of my current income. I think that should be the same for people relying/partially relying on the state. They know they will get a maximum of x amount (whatever the maximum child tax credit + child benefit + any other benefits they are entitled to) and will have to plan their families accordingly.

I have sympathy for people who have larger families when they can afford it but their circumstances change, e.g. a parent being made redundant or becoming to unwell to work. I think there could perhaps be some leeway for those families, though I suppose it would be harder (and more costly) to administer.

I had twins last year. We get no child benefit or tax credits at all. I'm not returning to work due to the cost of childcare and the fact that my work won't let me go part time.

There are loads of twin selling groups for clothes, prams, equipment etc. We got 2 gorgeous bouncy chairs for £20 - you wouldn't even have known they'd been used for a year.
I'm breastfeeding my girls at 11 months old - so that's free. There is a specialist FB group for breastfeeding multiples which has amazing support on there.
You don't have to go completely mad just because there are 2 babies - if she already has children, chances are she has a lot of baby stuff already.

This was my friend 5 years ago - w bed house, 2 children then unexpected twins. It was very, very hard for the first 3 years but now that they're in preschool it's getting better. They are now in the process of moving to a 3 bed house.

Perfect no, possible yes.

I'd add that he had a vasectomy within months of the unexpected pregnancy.

This policy will also affect families who's circumstances change. We have 4 dc. We both work and don't claim any benefits. However if one of us loses our job or becomes too ill to work ( a realistic possibility for my unwell dh who is the higher earner), then we would only be able to claim tax credits for 2 children when we open a new claim. Despite both having paid taxes for 30+ years each we would get little help when needed. Fortunately we would manage as we have no mortgage but others wouldn't.

'I can't imagine bf twins whilst watching other young kids .'

Do we know how old her others are? And she'll have to stop to feed them no matter what, may as well try to BF them.

Babyroobs

You may be right when you say "Unfortunately many of the types of families that go on to big families and unplanned pregnancies are already living in chaotic situations on already low incomes and there are already multiple problems and they are the type of families that need the most help"

However, simply throwing more cash at them for every additional child they have is not likely to help the children- if they are truly chaotic families then additional money is very frequently not spent on the children at all.

I don't think many such parents would have children solely for the extra income. However, the fact they would get more money means there is little (if any) disincentive to limit their family size.