To not understand the Tony Blair hatred thing

[smashedinductionhob]

I remember Tony Blair being very popular in his day and recall him doing reasonably good things.

I do remember very clearly the run up to the Iraq war and saying to my husband that I did not agree with it as there was no actual plan and the US public seemed to think Saddam Hussain was connected to 9/11 which he wasn't.

I remember passionate supporters of ethnic minorities in Iraq supporting him and only a few brave clever people like Obama calling it as a mistake.

I failed to demonstrate. The dossier was identified in Parliament (by a small minority) as dodgy before the war started but most of us went along with it.

It was clear to me at the time that the PM was supporting the US as a matter of principle (a lousy principle but fairly obvious).

How did we get from there to TB as hate figure? Is he just a scapegoat?

yorkshire
thats the problem with this country: we have come down to that bottom of the pit where public ignores war crimes for stuff at home that was the JOB of the said PM in the first place anyway.

I can't think of a better PM in my lifetime. Seriously. I dthink my love him but he was better than the rest. He introduced the Human rigts act, the Freedom of Information Act, the NHS did well under him, he wasn't unaware of normal life like the Camerons, he didn't lead us into any stupid referendums...

But just because British soldiers died, doesn't make him a war criminal any more that it makes any other PM who took the country to war following a parliamentary vote.

Are you all for the real??
Is there no humanity left round here? just becasue?
And there is no difference between going to war with the full backing of your parliament and going to it after Lying to parliament?
AND what about all the innocent millions who have died in those countries and still dying? Millions displaced?
We have some real rot taking up.

I don't get this either, OP.

Taking the Iraq War - public approval levels of the war were over 75%. To say that the vote to go into Iraq was close is very, very wrong: the actual parliamentary result was 412 to 149. Consider also that the Iraq Body Count Project estimates 1.2 million people were killed by Hussein (including whole villages wiped out by WMD sarin gas), while since 2003 the death toll is 180,000 - and those deaths didn't happen in a vacuum but in a culture used to death. Was Blair supposed to click his fingers and bring total peace unto the land? It's not perfect, but it is much better.

Just on the minimum wage thing, in 1996 I earned 70p an hour. 3 years later I earned over £3 for the same job. I can't describe the difference that made.

Valentine2

'millions' didn't die in Iraq because of Blair. Far from it. Nor did Blair lie. And you may say that all the great things Blair did was just a PM doing the job they should, but no other PM did it did they?

Fuck off you journo O P

Seahorses
The attack was on the premise that 9/11 was done by Iraq and Afghanistan. he said there were WMDs and he failed to produce one single proof of it. There is a lot wrong in lots of other countries too (Saddam was our ex partner and was equipped with weapons WE sold him). Shall we go and bomb the shit out of them all?
You have come to accept that lesser of two or three evils is far better than the bigger evil. But that's your problem and thankfully majority UK public is against that.
I would much rather vote Tory than start illegal wars in countries and I would much rather vote Corbyn than voting Blair again.
I happen to belong to the generation that grew watching footage of those wars and the aftermath. I have yet to come across anyone among my friends who would consider Blair anything other than a war criminal thankfully.

I used to work with someone who had a massive TB poster above her desk and she described him as her 'hero'

I just dont know. I really liked him...but I cant get over the Iraq war. I marched against the war. I hated bush and hated blair for going along with it. So many people are still dying because of that war. Dr Kelly's death was really shocking.

seahorse
Cross posted.
If you haven't even got the wherewithal to see I write "countries", not "country, then you better just go and sleep now.
The Chilcot Inquiry is a good start. One day we might see him in jail I hope.
Ah and just because no PM hasn't done his job that he was paid for, why in the world should we go and dig the shit pit and drag that scum up?
I don't get the logic of defeat we are spouting g in this country for the last one year or so.

Valentine Do you seriously think the Tories wouldn't have started the Iraq war?

Valentine2

Blair was given credible reports of WMDs. After all, as I said, Hussein had slaughtered thousands of his own people with them. It was Rumsfeld who sold weapons to Iraq I believe.

Can you not see the problem in your post? You would rather have the Tory party than pragmatic, practical Labour? The same Tory party that voted 100% in favour of the Iraq War based on the same information that Blair had? And don't even get me started on Corbyn. If you and your friends think of Blair as a war criminal then you are very much mistaken.

You should try and broaden your friendship group, Valentine. It can be helpful to discuss things with people who hold different opinions from you.

The Tories would have started that war on the same evidence, so I'm not sure how voting for them would help in any way, particularly if you don't support their other policies. I believe that's what known as 'cutting off your nose to spite your face'. But since you don't need to vote for Blair it's entirely hypothetical anyway.

Valentine2 your insults are not appreciated, although they do reinforce the impression I have of you.

Do you seriously think the Tories wouldn't have started the Iraq war?
How in the world have you come up with this ^ jewel in response to the page long essay of mine?
Any one starting a war like that is a war criminal and must be in jail.
What are you on about?
Handing your country to wolves in a plate? Tory or Labour, whatever.

100% of Tory MPs voted in favour of the Iraq War.

we are entitled to Hate whomever we chose..... particularly Politicians.... at the moment we have to endure Nicola Sturgeon....

If you and your friends think of Blair as a war criminal then you are very much mistaken.
I am not an arm chair activist. I have seen the results of the said wars first hand. Does that make sense?
As for voting Blair/Corbyn/Tories, he is the worst because he pretended he isn't.
You haven't replied about my points regarding Chilcot. Neither have you said anything about the defeatism in your post.
Sorry. I am young enough to keep working hard and so are my very large and quite a few Tory/LibDem/Labour voting friends.
I believe Corbyn is here because of Blair actually. But again, you defeatists won't get it.

He is, or colluded with, war criminals.

he pretended he isn't.
Posted too soon.
Wanted to write "he pretended he is the true socialist.
Anyhow, the sooner we get rid of this defeatist mentality of looking back into the past and get over it, thebetter it would be for us.

I agree with you op.

I've never understood the level of hatred towards him. He did many good things, including peace in NI, the minimum wage and redevelopment of many hospitals and schools.

City centres also underwent a huge redevelopment during the Labour years. Northern cities like Liverpool and Manchester are unrecognisable to what they were in the 1980s.

I don't think he lied in cold blood. I think he believed that there were WMD but he knew the 'proof' at the time wasn't watertight. I too think his hands were tied.

He is by no means perfect. He did things wrong but so do other PMs. I think history will view him more kindly.

I find it deeply ironic that he did help end a war in Northern Ireland, just to help start a war in Iraq. Any good legacy he had has been tainted by his gutless behaviour by backing that twat bush and being lead by his bloody ego ( in more ways than one)

I think people are looking at home with grey tinted glasses. Everyone seems to have forgotten all the good things his govt achieved. I disagreed with him over Iraq & still do - marched, voted lib dem in 2005 (again in 2010) because of it. But god damn it, I wish he were PM now!

Sorry awful typos I mean 'him' not home. I also don't think he lied in cold blood, he believed what he was doing was right but that was just semantics. & to blame him for the state of the Labour Party now? What the fuck? That's mainly due to the facts it's controlled by those who don't believe in compromise and don't care about winning elections!

Why is Bush more popular with the Americans than Blair is with Brits?