If you are Muslim.

[Masher]

Hopefully this doesn't come across as insensitive. It is to do with the photograph of the lady in the brown headscarf walking across Westminster Bridge after the attack. I thought she looked terrified, distraught, and very, very shaken. The photographer has just confirmed this.

One thing that crossed my mind I think, is that if I was muslim and caught up in such an act I would really fear for my safety. I would be scared the people there may turn against me, I would be scared that I would be accused of being involved, and I would be scared the security services may do both of these things too.

It got me thinking about how I would feel in everyday life in Britain. I just wondered whether you all feel safe here, or if it changes through various regions and depends on where you are?

If you don't feel safe, or there are times when you don't feel safe, what can I do that would make it better? I live in London if that helps.

What has being a remainer got to do with being muslims and Jews?

I think people should wear what they like but I must admit I'm not sure how I feel about children wearing headscarves

Tiger

Jewish people weren't always given the chance to keep their names. New names were forced upon them by those writing the immigration papers. It's disrespectful. It's not what we do now. More recently many immigrants felt they had to pick a name to fit in. It doesn't make it right.

sherazade how absolutely appalling to call someone speaking of something that you don't like "hate filled". I'm so sick of it. I've beeen on threads where post after post can be anti Christian but never have i seen one person berated for their post and it to be called "hate filled"., and i was just talked no about an experience which happened to my dd, (because we were on the subject of clothing) Fuck off with your defamatory name calling for someone speaking about something that happens to piss you off. It is you that sounds "hate filled" with remarks like that.

What do people feel about the use of "My God..." or variants as used by people who are if another religion? I have heard Muslins children - teenagers - do so and it jars. Why don't I challenge it? That's the question...

...of another...

Muslim

Apologies for the predictor errors.

sherazade

Muslims women don't give a hoot what western women wear . The Quran and prophet command Muslim women, not all women , to dress in a certain way as part of their Muslim identity . Do keep posting though hanna, as you are exposing yourself as a hate filled fantasist every time you do.

Why in the 21st century should anyone be "commanded" to dress in a certain way?

hannashanoi, so most Muslim women believe that westerners dress in a whoreish manner? What is you evidence for such a strong and strange statement?

I am fascinated by people feeling it's despicable for me to suggest integration has worked very well for some communities. I have certainly not said anyone coming here needs to become like the rest of us. It is obviously common knowledge that if you have a posh accent and are called John Smith or whatever that things may be easier for you in certain jobs and the like nad plenty of people even on mumsnet discuss how to pick children's names - eg certain first names mean you will become a Chief Executive of a British business etc. It is not really despicable to talk about integration - it is in fact the issue of our day and I think it's a huge discriminatory pity that Islam as followed by some on the UK means women stand out as different but men just because they happen to be male don't whereas with Sikhs it is the other way round and orthodox jews pretty equal - both in head gear.

We can certainly talk about it but of course politely. I don't want us to go the French way and ban certain clothes. I would like all religions and religious symbols removed from all state funded schools.

Dionne , no i didn't say "most", please read properly, i said "many". What is my evidence for such a "strange" statement? how on earth can you give evidence for what are just observations and remembered extracts from different books i've read over the years. Why on earth is it so strange. So you think that women who strictly adhere to wearing a full head to toe cover up think the way some western women dress is fine. Don't be ridiculous. Why on earth do you find that strange.

Muslims women don't give a hoot what western women wear . The Quran and prophet command Muslim women, not all women , to dress in a certain way as part of their Muslim identity . Do keep posting though hanna, as you are exposing yourself as a hate filled fantasist every time you do.
why in saudia arabia a muslim country make everyone wear a dress code then?

Many - a large number of; the majority of.

Do you know a large number of Muslim women who have told you that they consider the way western women dress "whoreish" Hanna? I find it strange that you would associate with a large number of women with whom you fundamentally disagree. I think it is much more likely that your prejudice towards this group has resulted in confirmation bias and possible making some shit up.

My style of dress would be considered by many as modest. I dress this way because I like it. My style of dress says nothing about what I think of women who dress differently to me. So yes, I consider it strange that you would extrapolate what many Muslim women think about others' dress sense, simply because they dress differently.

Anyway, you have no evidence for your bigotted statement. I'm not surprised.

Really unfortunate that virtually all mumsnet threads relating to Muslim women end up with with the same vitriolic rubbish being spouted by the the same kind of sanctimonious people, they practically follow a formula, and ruin what could be an interesting and productive discussion. I do realise I'm probably as much to blame for always rising to it but I can understand why so many Muslim women don't feel welcome on here and don't stick around.

Muhajaba, I think it's true of all threads aimed at minority groups, it's certainly the case on threads about SN too and as the mother of a severely disabled adult child I find I contribute less and less as I'm shouted down by people who have little experience of the matters being discussed. It's just ignorance, pure and simple and ignorance breeds fear. These people have no idea they are part of the PROBLEM.

Dionne my dd was called a "whore", now if you choose not to believe or accept that ( as any perceived criticism usually isn't ) that's your prerogative.It was a passing comment, nothing to get worked up about. Why does any slight criticism have to be magnified so much for goodness sake. But if someone is prepared to say that to my dds face then why should it surprise you that many think that.

What do you mean "you find it strange that i'd associate with women who i fundamentally disagree with" ? I didn't say i knew them. Are you kidding? I absolutely feel massive empathy for so many muslim women, i've read countless books of the horrors they've had inflicted on them in their lives. The subjugation is horrendous. The suffering at the hands of men is beyond belief.

My comments on how many muslim women regard western women's dress is apparent in loads of the books i've read, not so much by the young ones, who would love to have the freedom to dress how they want, but from what i have read, often by their mothers, why would you find that so unbelievable, it seems very natural to me.

Please try not to be so defensive and so quick to imply people are haters when they're not. It's a bit tiresome tbh.

Oh right, of course, silly me. One woman muttered something behind her full face covering, so obviously that means that many Muslim women consider western dress "whoreish".

I go out of my way on line to associate with people whose views I do not agree with even people who believe in God and even people who are sexist. it is only by listening to others that we understand them and can live happily side by side.

The issue of to what extent it makes sense to assimilate is worth debate. Luckily for many there is no legal obligation to do so in the UK as long as basic English laws are respected. Above all I want that freedom of speech and rights for men and women to wear what they choose and that includes my rights to sunbathe topless and walk out locally with much more flesh showing than most people (and no one has stopped that of course - most people in the UK from all backgrounds are tolerate and kind to others whether they are atheists or religious people).

Owllady Thats awful, I really would never have imagined people would behave like that on threads relating to SN I hope you have good real life support. I think what bothers me most is people who ask a question but then either ignore your answer or tell you it's wrong..why ask in the first place! I annoy myself for not ignoring it though, I should be more dignified

It would be preposterous to claim that women don't judge other women on what they wear. Statistically there must be some Muslim women who do judge. Even the amazing malala youfazai said she was shocked by the way some women dressed in this country. Her hospital was near a clubbing street in Birmingham apparently and the scantily dressed women 'made her feel like drowning '. I have dressed fairly modestly all my life and I can't deny that I too have sometimes judged other women for their scantily clad attire. But even now on a beach in my swimming costume next to a lady in a BurkinI, I can't help but feel inappropriately dressed in comparison

So are you saying that nobody can hear what someone says behind a full face covering? obviously to have heard something she would have said it in a loudish voice, but it would be heard as a "mutter", i could have easy said she "shouted it out" if i wanted to lie.

No it's not because of that one instance i think the same of everyone, didn't you just read my thread. Why the hell does it seem so unbelievable to you (well it doesn't but you pretend it's so). Are you honestly saying that the way some western women dress wouldn't appall a certain section of muslim women? It's even depicted in tv programmes for heaven sake. Grow up.

I'm not joining in the bunfight but to go back to the op, British people tend not to be rubberneckers. If someone is being worked on by medics it's not our way to stop and gawp indecently. The poor woman had probably seen and heard all sorts immediately before and might well have been texting her mum to say she was safe.

To Scherazade and the other Muslim ladies, I hope you're not on the receiving end of Britain First type crap because of this attack.

Hannashanoi - I think whilst we all realise that awful comments towards Muslim women far outweigh those towards white women in the UK.

However, other white women, myself included, have had similar experiences. But we realise that you get nasty people of all religions and none, and that being religious does not mean you can't also be an arsehole. I believe you

I too hope that no one is treated badly following this awful attack.