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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think school trip to science museum tomorrow is not a great idea ! After Westminster.

191 replies

OopsDearyMe · 23/03/2017 22:17

My daughters school have a trip arranged for tomorrow to the science museum in London. I know I'm gonna look like a bubble wrapper, but I'm not sure why but I'm not comfortable with the idea of a school taking a group of 100 kids to a known landmark and possible terror target , just a few days after what has just happened.

I know the threat is more likely to be for political places , but look at the bataclan (sp) and beach attacks. I know we should be standing firm and not be cowed, bu my daughter is profoundly deaf on one side and as a result gets lost easily and struggles in busy places. Should something happen even nearby, I'm not sure she would be able to react quickly etc.

I'm also annoyed because the statement sent out, was quite insensitive about what happened and was full of feeble reasons as to why they could not cancel (it would cost them to re book the coaches, the terror threat has not been raised and they have plenty of staff).

I used to work in the West End, when 7/7 happened and still went to work, so I'm no snowflake....

OP posts:
Chippednailvarnishing · 24/03/2017 08:54

Waffling I'd be concerned what affect your anxiety would have on a child and the risk of passing off irrational behaviour as normal.

Chippednailvarnishing · 24/03/2017 08:54

x post with Dermot

GetAHaircutCarl · 24/03/2017 08:56

waffling you have a debilitating MH condition.

You must seek help for it and try as best you can to not let it have an adverse impact upon your DC's lives and their own MH.

I know this is hard but you have to try.

HermioneJeanGranger · 24/03/2017 08:56

Waffling, please get some help. That is so unfair on your DC to have their lives restricted that way Sad

FumBluff1 · 24/03/2017 08:57

I wouldnt be sending mine, YANBU

Ratonastick · 24/03/2017 08:58

I work about 300 yds from Westminster, just past the government buildings and commute in from Berkshire every day. I honestly don't think anything has changed. There are more visible police, particularly at the stations, and the surveillance helicopters were up all day yesterday but everyone is just going about their day as usual. The threat level has been severe for some time and I don't think that this event changed much.
The truth is that every major event, landmark, shopping centre, crowded place, etc is at risk but the individual risk of getting caught in something is very low. The number of incidents and deaths in Western Europe is actually much lower today than in previous decades but the rolling news makes them feel more common. I think I would let my DS go in your position as the only reason not to would be my own irrational worry and I wouldn't want to communicate that to him.

DermotOLogical · 24/03/2017 09:03

@FumBluff1 your logical reasoning for not sending your children is what exactly?

Amanduh · 24/03/2017 09:04

It's not a terrorist target. The 'risk' is no different to any daily life 'risks' such as walking down the road. Your child is more likely to be in danger on any general day of their life in a car. Yes, it's scary when you see these things but bad things can happen any place any time. The world is full of wonderful things, you can't stop living due to the bad ones.

SuperBeagle · 24/03/2017 09:04

I on the other hand have decided not to visit my local city centre or huge shopping mall with my children a the next few months at least.

You'll end up passing your anxiety on to your children, which is ridiculously selfish.

ARumWithAView · 24/03/2017 09:05

We were at the science museum on Wednesday, and didn't hear about the Westminster attack until we got home (also London). The science museum already has a bag-check policy in place. I'd absolutely let DD go again today, especially if it was a pre-planned trip. Cancelling saves yourself a day of worry (which is horrible: I'm not minimizing this) but potentially transfers a more broader worry to your DC: will they remember, every time they hear about the science museum (or London) that this was the place they couldn't visit because of the terrorism risk?

Personally, I think it's an important part of parenting to teach our DC how to assess risk properly. Not only because teaching them to curtail their lives in the face of minuscule risk is simply daft but it is also dangerous as it prevents proper assessment of proper risk.

YY. I'm always shocked by the number of really bad traffic accidents and fatalities here in SW London which fail to make the national news; no huge headlines, unless there's a particularly surprising aspect. I'm never sure if this is because we've totally accepted the risks inherent in being a driver/pedestrian/cyclist, and therefore it's not news.. or if we're in denial of the risks and prefer not to dwell on them. The latter, I think, given the number of people I see running through traffic to catch their bus, or cycling without lights, or driving like a twat through crowded areas. A mindset where we're incredibly worried about miniscule risks but mostly oblivious to larger everyday ones is ignorant and dangerous.

Moussemoose · 24/03/2017 09:15

Part of being a parent is NOT passing on your own insecurities to your children. Sucking up your emotions because it is about them and not about you.

Do you want your children to have 'crippling anxiety' ? If the answer is no, then, unfortunately you need to get over yourself.

MimsyFluff · 24/03/2017 09:20

My DC won't be going to London on school trips. We're in the north and they normally go in Y6 for a few days, if and I know it's a very big if there was an attack of any sort the teachers would have 40 kids to safely remove but we go to London a few times a year and will continue to do so.

I'm not one bit precious about my DC they (3, 6 and 8 years) climb trees, hike mountain's, mountain biking and all sorts they are more likely to die breaking their necks doing some dirt jumps.

AlexanderHamilton · 24/03/2017 09:20

Ive seen doyouwantabrew post on a couple of these threads now. I remember her dd's school trip being on the news.

I just want to Acknowledge her bravery & her dds bravery in going back to where the accident occurred. Her perspective on this type of situation is invaluable.

Semaphorically · 24/03/2017 09:30

I can completely understand your worry. But I think PPs are right, there is so much heightened security at the moment, it's probably the safest time to go. I flew long haul shortly after 9/11. I have never felt so safe on a plane, security was ridiculously high.

Also I think we have a responsibility not to freak out about this incident. Generating terror is the central aim of terrorism. And if we hide in our houses and change our daily patterns and live in fear then hasn't the purpose of a terror attack been achieved? In this kind of war I do think courage is all most of us have, if we are frightened beyond normal carefulness then we're losing the fight.

Trifleorbust · 24/03/2017 09:34

Some people seem unable to calculate risk in anything like a reasonable way. Several people were killed on Wednesday - a tragic and horrible event. But how many people died in accidents? Many, many more. And how many people have travelled into London and other cities and not died? Millions of them, every day for years and years under the same terrorist threat. We can't live in fear, not as some pugilistic point of principle, but because no-one, surely, wants to live under so many restrictions as it would take to avoid all risk?

LittleLionMansMummy · 24/03/2017 09:40

ARumWithAView I agree in the main. But just to point out that Westminster has bag checks too - it doesn't stop people who are determined to use whatever weapon is at their disposal, including vehicles. I'm on maternity leave at present but work in Westminster (actually closer to Westminster Abbey), so I did have a massive "wtf?!" moment when it happened. But then I've been mentally preparing myself for something, somewhere in the UK, to happen ever since 7/7 tbh. It's a sad fact. But I frequently give my head a wobble and remind myself of the stats. There's no way I'd pass my (unspoken and irrational) fears onto my children. I want them to go out and witness first hand how utterly amazing our world is for the most part and make the most of every opportunity given to them.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 24/03/2017 09:52

A mindset where we're incredibly worried about miniscule risks but mostly oblivious to larger everyday ones is ignorant and dangerous.

Exactly this. People's ability to assess risk and make sensible decisions based on facts, not feelings, is very, very poor. Every day we make thousands of decisions without even noticing that's what we're doing. Crossing the road, getting on a bus, driving the car, buying a prawn sandwich, chopping an onion - we don't even notice we're making decisions here, but we are, and they all carry risks. We ignore them because ordinary life becomes impossible if we think about every single detail. Habits become established and we just do things without thinking about them, and ironically it's when we stop thinking about the risk of everyday things that we can drift into very unsafe behaviour - not checking both ways before crossing the road or texting while driving, for example.

When it comes to out of the way decisions that we don't make routinely, and where we're aware that there could be catastrophic consequences, some people massively overestimate how likely those consequences are to happen to them. It's all too easy to visualise the result if you do have the one in a million bad luck to be affected, and all too easy too to ignore the harm that could follow from your evasive action, which is far more likely to happen.

Example 1: you don't have your baby immunised against measles, although there's no medical reason not to. Your baby avoids the very small risk of harm coming directly from the immunisation, which is what you're frightened of. Your baby is, however, now at far greater risk of getting measles, being miserably ill for a week at least and having quite a high chance of nasty side effects and even death. Your baby could also infect someone who can't be immunised for medical reasons and cause them great harm too.

Example 2: you don't send your child on a school trip to London because you're worried about terrorism. Your child is indeed kept safe from the vanishingly unlikely chance of another attack. However, your child misses out on a fun experience, on the learning objectives of the trip and (most importantly) learns that the most important adult in her life does not make rational decisions based on evidence and lets anxiety rule her life.

I grew up with a very overanxious mother and it's affected me. I'm very risk averse and I do worry unnecessarily about things. I try to overcome it, though. I would like to be a strong, resilient person and to make proportionate decisions based on logic, not fear, and that's what I want for my children too.

specialsubject · 24/03/2017 09:53

I live in an area where get weekly road fatalities due to dangerous driving - almost as deliberate as terrorist murder. You dont see it on the news , there are no silences, but it keeps happening.

Please. Get real.

AlPacinosHooHaa · 24/03/2017 09:56

I always think directly after attack when everyone is on alert is the best time to go!

But I totally am there with you on anxiety over this. Last year my dd had trip planned and I was nervous over it - told was silly, well guess where she was on day of attack! In London on school trip! Of all the days!!!

People said all the car crash stuff, but my DD was there on a random school trip on the same day - of course un harmed...

I also dont feel the science museum would be target at all, and there are security people when you go in, ie cant just walk in. The trip previously I didnt want DD to do was tube to london and london eye.

Poudrenez · 24/03/2017 09:58

YANBU to be anxious, it's just human nature. I do agree that we have some sort of obligation to carry on, although I don't have kids yet! As it happens I work (and am currently sitting in my office) about 300 yards from the science museum, and it did occur to me on the way in that Exhibition Road is a prime target. However, school parties are usually dropped off there, and there are several obstructions (parked cars/boris bikes. lots of lamp posts) so I can't see how an attack like Wednesday's would happen here. Obviously these things are random, but we have to live our lives. And yes, as others say, there is a very effective security presence here. I hope your daughter has a lovely day out.

AlPacinosHooHaa · 24/03/2017 09:58

learns that the most important adult in her life does not make rational decisions based on evidence and lets anxiety rule her life

Oh no, I am sure op isnt going on about this to her dc ! this is why she on here, when I was worried about last years trip my DD had absolutely no idea whatsoever AND we go to London most weeks but on a weekend.

Believeitornot · 24/03/2017 10:05

It's harder for humans to asses their risk in a purely statistical way because we actual perceive threats differently - we don't do it on a statistical basis.

I know the risk is low and hasn't changed much (although actually the risk is higher because plenty more people are trying, but it's still low), but that doesn't stop me being scared. Especially as I was close to the London bombings and walk through Westminster every evening. So in my head, going to certain places does raise my risk albeit in a small way, but it does.

So, to manage my anxiety I pretty much carry on as normal. Because the more I do something, the more relaxed I feel. But working in London makes me that slightly more edgy and I do keep a little bit more alert instead of wearing headphones all the time.

I wouldn't stop my dcs going on a trip to London but I would go on the trip as well if possible.

DorotheaBeale · 24/03/2017 10:07

Moussemoose
Why don't we all just cancel our plans and stay at home

Not a statistician, but I should think there's a greater likelihood of op's dd being injured falling down the stairs at home, or some other domestic accident, than being involved in a terrorist incident.

But may I remind people who are talking about when the last deaths from terrorism in London occurred that Lee Rigby was murdered in 2013, in Woolwich, which is part of London. Not to heighten people's fears, but just so that he is not forgotten.

JellyWitch · 24/03/2017 10:11

I am still in work as are thousands of workers in direct proximity to parliament. I will still bring the kids into London at Easter as intended.

The chances of being run over on the school run are greater than getting hurt in London in a terrorist incident, even for me who works in Westminster half the week and does the school run only 2 days!

Don't let fear cripple you living your life.

Mcchickenbb41 · 24/03/2017 10:12

Hi op I had to fly with my ds to the US month after 9/11. It was the safest time to fly imo