To have concerns about Dsis moving into our jointly owned flat

[Etaina]

Dsis and I inherited a house which is split into two flats and have been renting it out for 15 years now. We own it equally as tenants in common. She is selling her own house and now wants to move into the ground floor flat with her Dh. I expect she’ll buy a couple of houses to rent outright with the proceeds of the sale of her house. Dsis said that I can keep the rent from the upstairs. I said that I would like some time to think about it which didn’t go down too well. I don’t want to be obstructive or unreasonable, but I am worried that there could be disagreements further down the line. We’re both in our 50s and from what she’s said, I think she would like to stay there for forever. She doesn’t want us to transfer ownership of the flat to her name because of Capital Gains Tax, just to live there rent free. AIBU to have some reservations about this? I don’t even know exactly what I should be worried about. I just have a bad feeling that this arrangement could cause problems. E.g. she’s made it clear that she wouldn’t want Dh and I living upstairs at any point, so already seems unfair. Btw she could buy a flat in that location with the proceeds of her house sale but she would get more rental income by buying two properties in a cheaper place.

Other things to think about.

If she moves in and decides to do major renovations to the flat are you liable for 50% of that under maintenance?

As stands (using my figures below) this deal would reduce your income by over 60%.

She however would stand to gain moving her share of the rental value from a 50/50 to 80/20 in her favour.

This is before she started getting you to subside the new kitchen etc she wants to put in....

EatsShitAndLeaves she would most definitely want to put in a new kitchen and bathroom and would expect me to pay for half of it because I own half the flat. She would say that it is an investment.

Definitely get legal advice and go from there. Your sister doesn't sound like a reasonable person at all though and it would probably be better for you to sell the flats for their market value. If she wants to buy from you, make sure they are properly valued by an independent surveyor (don't let your sister organise it).

At this rate you'll end up paying her for her to live there rather than getting income.

I think you either have to knock her moving in on the head or sell up.

She's got A LOT more money than me because she lived in a house owned by a relative rent free for years but basically bullied the relative into signing it over (Dsis kept saying that she had no security without ownership) and then sold it for a fortune

So she's got form for being a con artist? I was wondering about that, so wasn't surprised to see this update.

If its capital gains tax then how about you sign an agreement with her for 12 months? then review next tax year?

What was the long term plan for these flats? if you are passing them onto your family as inheritance wouldn't it better to split them? one each?

she lived in a house owned by a relative rent free for years but basically bullied the relative into signing it over ... and then sold it for a fortune

Quite the little user isn't she - and very ready to use nastiness to get her own way Given her behaviour I wouldn't even consider her demand since you'd only be storing up problems for the future

Normally I'd suggest that she buy you out of both flats so she can have the home she wants and get an income from the upper one, but she'll hardly agree to that if she thinks she can have it all for free

Better still, just sell the whole thing and save yourself the angst

After reading some of your updates I think you need to get to the solicitor, don't give her anything. She can buy you out of your half at full price. Pay the Capital gains and get her off your back. I'm not sure I'd want a relationship with a sister like this one. What in heck dos she even bring to your life except grief and bullying.

The flats can be sold without evicting the tenant - the tenancy agreement can be transferred to a new landlord.

I completely agree with what rabbitrun said above. She is not the sister you would like to have and never will be. You permitting her to bully you into yet more financial loss will not salvage that relationship.

Believe me, I know how hard it it to let go of the wanting for a sibling to respect you, but you can't make it happen. The more I rolled over to appease my sibling the worse I got treated, round and round and round for years until I hit my limits and drew a line in the sand.

I miss the familial relationship, but the truth is it had stopped being nice a loooong time before, and I absolutely do not miss being bullied, rejected, disrespected, upset and hurt regularly. I would never have let anyone else do it, and it bothers me that I allowed it to go on so long simply because we are related.

Oh, and if she does buy you out, get it all done through a solicitor. Do NOT sign anything over to her without proper legal documentation. The trust ship has sailed, be under no illusions. Protect your assets or be ready to lose the lot to her.

She will fuck you over clearly. Get legal advice and separate your finances permanently and fairly. This is a no brainer!

Thinking further about this, whether the tenant stays or not, it probably won't be easy to sell the flats if she downright refuses to do so - and she probably will refuse if she thinks she'll get her own way by keeping up the bullying long enough

On reflection, I agree with PPs that proper legal advice is the way to go now

Well if someone wants to buy it as a BTL and you have good tennants in residence it should make it easier to sell.
Worth considering.

Seeing your updates!!!

Deffo get an independent solicitor (different from hers)

Get them to write to tenant downstairs to not take any notice of anything your sis says about moving out

Tell sis that she must communicate with you via solicitor (if she rings or emails repeat repeat repeat)

She has conned a relative before and will do it go you too

Get a valuation x 3 - from 3 different valuers on the GF & FF and everything together

Get an account tax advisor to help with CGT (not to help her but you)

If this was me,

I'm not an expert and exactly because of that coupled with my sisters awful behaviour both now and what she did to the previous family member would make instruct a solicitor and sell the whole property and split the 50%

I would do this knowing that it might lose me money in the long term due to increase in property value but I would gain massively in the emotional sense because I'd avoid the inevitable stress and heartbreak of a future fighting including in the courts with her after she moves in and things sour!

Also a solicitor would be able to advise how to handle a sale if the other half-owner refuses to go ahead with it

I haven't a clue how this would be approached - wonder if anyone else knows about such things?

Ah - useful article here: www.birketts.co.uk/resources/legal-updates/1706/private-lives-disputes-over-jointly-owned-property/

It appears that, if it really comes to it, OP could ask a court to decide on the disposal of the property

Equally if she owns both flats jointly with you, you can't tell her she can't occupy her share of the properties, you could end up in a situation where she simply decides that neither are being rented out, and hold you over a barrel. She could easily have the ground floor transferred into her sole name in consideration of the ff flat being placed into your name, without triggering CG, so she should get advice as should you, just be cautious of wielding your veto just because you can.

What's your objection to her occupying the property so long as legally it's a separate flat to the FF?

She could easily have the ground floor transferred into her sole name in consideration of the ff flat being placed into your name

But then, surely she in turn would need OP's agreement for that?

What's your objection to her occupying the property so long as legally it's a separate flat to the FF?

If you read the thread

E.g. Long term tennants of 10 years
Sister has enough money to buy elsewhere in same area
Sister doesn't want to pay rent
FF glatbis leass valuable and harder to rent
Sister may not leave if OP wants to sell ........

Plus other legal matters - and the shouting!!

On the bright side, it is very very clear that you really don't want to be in any kind of shared financial arrangement with your sister. You need to sell it. Or she can buy you out (or you buy her out?) with solicitors handling all valuations, but you can't stay in a joint arrangement with her.

I think your best bet is to say no, to sell it, pay the tax and divest yourself of anything held jointly with her.

Would the tenant in gff be in any kind of position to buy or even buy part share of the flat he lives in?

I feel sorry for him, and terrified of what could happen if your sis gets anywhere close to him.

In answer to questions above, we didn't ever really have a plan of what to do as such. We inherited the property and never discussed how long we would rent it out for.

The GF tenant may well be in a position to buy it. I hadn't really considered that. He's such a thoroughly decent guy. I really hope Dsis doesn't do anything.

Good grief! What your sister did to this other relative (forcing them to sign over a property and then selling it) sounds bordering on the criminal! Def get everything tied up with a solicitor asap.

Lots of good advice here. You need to stop wasting time on MN and book appointment with a SHL as soon as possible.