To have concerns about Dsis moving into our jointly owned flat

[Etaina]

Dsis and I inherited a house which is split into two flats and have been renting it out for 15 years now. We own it equally as tenants in common. She is selling her own house and now wants to move into the ground floor flat with her Dh. I expect she’ll buy a couple of houses to rent outright with the proceeds of the sale of her house. Dsis said that I can keep the rent from the upstairs. I said that I would like some time to think about it which didn’t go down too well. I don’t want to be obstructive or unreasonable, but I am worried that there could be disagreements further down the line. We’re both in our 50s and from what she’s said, I think she would like to stay there for forever. She doesn’t want us to transfer ownership of the flat to her name because of Capital Gains Tax, just to live there rent free. AIBU to have some reservations about this? I don’t even know exactly what I should be worried about. I just have a bad feeling that this arrangement could cause problems. E.g. she’s made it clear that she wouldn’t want Dh and I living upstairs at any point, so already seems unfair. Btw she could buy a flat in that location with the proceeds of her house sale but she would get more rental income by buying two properties in a cheaper place.

Definitely legal advice and don't let yourself get shafted

Bullying is exactly what it is. My sibling also went for the being horrible approach. It's all smoke and mirrors to distract you from the fact they are taking you for a ride.

Honestly, if I had my time over I'd get legal advice and tie it all down with steel hawsers. The relationship was fucked anyway once property and money greed came along.

Also, I will never ever leave property to be held jointly by my offspring. It's like leaving them an unexploded bomb.

I'd make sure the property was sold immediately and the cash shared out. No fuss, no deliberations, no bullying, nothing that requires them to get along like nice people together. It's just too much strain for most sibling relationships to cope with in the long term.

If she's screaming at you now and being unreasonable just because you want to approach the situation sensibly by thinking things through then goodness knows what she'll be like it there's an actual problem with the property.

This combined with a number of other factors listed on this thread would mean I'd want no part of it. Either the flats are rented with all gains and costs split equally and without anyone having a personal interest in the building (meaning not living there) or I'd want my share sold/bought out

Please get yourself legal advice before agreeing to anything OP

Sell the property. Given how she has behaved, I would be severing financial and legal ties ASAP. With top-notch advice to prevent anything biting you in the are later. It's not going to get any better.

You could get the place valued and take legal advice without her even knowing. I'm assuming you are scared of her and you will want to delay the point when she kicks off as long as possible.

Seriously though, she's going to kick off over anything even remotely fair to you, so you might as well make sure that at the end of her screaming banshee histrionics you have no financial and legal ties to her and you do have your fair 50% of the sale of the properties.

I think she's not only taking you for a ride, she's asking you to be part of a tax dodge. I'd get legal advice. You seem to be worried about upsetting her but it looks as though you have no choice.

I would suggest that you split the rent from the FF but she pays you half the rent on the GF. Same financial result as long as there are tenants in the FF flat but it seems a much fairer situation. Unless you actually want to live there at some point, in which case it is very unfair that she is moving in and not allowing you to!!

Another thing to consider is that if she does move into the ground floor flat and agrees to pay 50% of the rent, it's quite possible that she will default.

I'm not sure how one could enforce an eviction order on someone who owns 50% of the property.....I dare say it would be a complicated (and legally expensive) process.

I think the only fair solution is for both properties to be sold and if the sister still wishes to live in the GF flat, then she will have to buy you out of your share at the current market value (and get a property valuation appraiser rather than an estate agent to give an accurate assessment of its worth).

Btw; I do feel sorry for the current tenant of the GF flat.

Sister is being a selfish bully.

Also, how awful for the current tenants to be chucked out of their home on someone else's whim for no good reason. I couldn't in all conscience do that to decent tenants. It's not as if she's destitute or homeless and moving into the flat is her only option. She has other choices, but is only interested in the one that would benefit her.

Definitely get legal advice. But FWIW, I would fight her in this and not allow it. I'd rather sell the entire property than be diddled out of money by my own sibling. The fact she wanted an answer immediately and threw a tantrum when not given into straight away shows she knows she's doing the wrong thing.

and started screaming at me and stormed out when I said we needed to discuss it further. It has caused a lot of bad feeling.

This alone would have me running 🏃🏽‍♀️🏃🏽‍♀️🏃🏽‍♀️🏃🏽‍♀️🏃🏽‍♀️ to engage a solicitor.
Today
Do not be bullied.
I am on your behalf.

She could cause terrible problems making the FF impossible to rent out. I'd insist on leaving the GF tenanted until he moves out, but she could drive him out if she lives upstairs.

Given her unkind behaviour, I think I'd tell her absolutely no way will you accept a change like that. She can make life miserable whatever you do, at least that way she can't make you poor and miserable! She doesn't sound like a big loss, anyway.

Given her behaviour I wouldn't want any kind of financial or legal relationship with her. She sounds quite unpleasant.

Good god no, don't let her set foot in that building! The gff tenant wouldn't thank you for that and I agree that she'd make him move out.

No. Neither of you lives there. It stays as it is, or you sell it.

The CGT might not be an issue as there's a relief available when splitting jointly owned property into two separately owned properties. Difficult to say from the facts of the case whether it applies here but worth a look.
However, I agree with everyone that tax isn't actually a deciding factor here - your decision is probably more influenced by your relationship with her.

If the FF flat is more difficult to rent out with out parking and garden - then swirled the rent on that one will be less?

So if the lower flat is £1000 pcm and the other £800 a month you lose £100 - or she gains it?

Not so fair is it?

You need proper legal advice.

Completely separate from her legal advice.

You get your own solicitor, she can get hers.

I'd simply respond back to her with the maths.

Let's assume for ease that the GF flat is 1000 pm and the FF, 500 pm. The GF is rented full time, but occupancy on the FF is 50%.

Maintenance for both is 50 pm.

As stands the total annual income is £15k (1k x 12 plus 500 x 6). Less maint of £600, so you share 14.4k

Both of you then receive £7.2k annually.

Under her arrangement your annual income would drop to £2.7k (500 x 6 minus 25 x 12).

Meaning you lose £4.5k annually - over 60% of your rental income to subsidise her new living arrangements.

If she wants to move into the flat, then she should do so at market rates with the income and maintenance continuing to be divided equally.

She would also have a tendency agreement - as even though she is a "partial" landlord any rental needs to be legal between you both. This would give her no more rights than the current tenant.

In your case I'd outline the above (with real figures) in an email and tell her that before any decision is made that the finances need to be resolved and that you need legal advice on her tenancy agreement.

You have all really opened my eyes up to what could happen and have made me feel stronger about protecting myself. When she raised it, I didn't even say 'no', just that I wanted time to think about it and yet she still started screaming at me. She's easily got enough money to buy a place in the same location so it's not as though her plans would be ruined. She's got A LOT more money than me because she lived in a house owned by a relative rent free for years but basically bullied the relative into signing it over (Dsis kept saying that she had no security without ownership) and then sold it for a fortune. The relative really regretted agreeing to it (didn't trust her at all) and almost pulled out of the transfer and the solicitor wasn't happy about it either, but Dsis wouldn't back off. The relative wanted to make things even between us but died suddenly before that could happen. There's a lot of other stuff too where she's taken from me and others but I've tried not to think about it all because it is very upsetting and stressful. But I'm so grateful to you all for making me realise that she's trying to take advantage of me again.

Ah it's good you can see clearly OP. She sounds pretty awful. Protect yourself now! I'd sell and split. She can't force you to do anything else.

Instruct a solicitor.

NOW.

Do not let her move in. From her track record, she will not pay any rent or maintenance & you will be stuffed as unlikely to sell with her in it. Sell it now & invest your money separately!
I wouldn't trust her at all. Good luck.

Good for you OP.

Sounds like she has form for bullying her plans through.

As per pp's get to a solicitor.

First thing to know is can she give notice to the current tenant without your consent given this is the first stage in her plan.

Secondly if she did move in, what tenancy agreement would need to be in place? Can she simply move in and not pay? Can you force the sale of the property if needed?

Don't speak to her in person about it. Don't let her bully you - simply say you'll deal with her requests via your solicitor.

I didn't even consider that she could give notice to the GF tenant without my consent or that selling it with her living there would be problematic.

I like the idea of telling her to deal with her requests via my solicitor. She'd really lose it if I said that!

Selling and splitting is probably the most sensible way forward, espeically as we are both now in our 50s with families of our own. I just don't know when would be a good time (would feel terrible asking fabulous GF tenant to leave).

I agree you should just sell both and be done with it. She isn't on the same page or planet as you. The notion that she could live in the more valuable property and refuse you permission to even live in the other one, when she denied your request to do similar in the past, shows how unreasonable she is being.

Just pay the CGT. She could buy you out if she wants. You'd need both properties valuing and she should pay you the full half.