To be a bit sick of the independance referendum debate with Scotland

[Cantshedmymuffintop]

I will say I am neither Scottish or English, but getting soo bloody sick of the whining about another referendum (and I'm a remoaner!). It feels very much like a whiney teen having a tantrum that they didn't get their own way. There are two other countries in the UK, and do you see us moaning about our bloody freedom. We hardly ever get represented on political programmes and yet it feels like every week we get the SNP on the TV telling us of Scotlands woes. Quite frankly they are hogging the debating arena. Rant over.

Hahaha got me all wrong. Just feels like no MPs on the tv at the moment represent me. I mean I'm not UKIP before you go there, and yes would love to see them taken off the telly. But I'm not Scottish either and they are forever sticking SNP on question time who certainly don't represent anyone in my bit of the UK. Quite honestly don't get nationalist parties full stop. Work together people! Open doors, don't build walls!

"They want to leave Britain but be taken over by Brussels"

Even if I accepted that premise (and I dont) I would argue that power witheld and retained (UK over Scotland) and power pooled (EU) are different things.

Even the UK government's recent White Paper on Brexit finally confessed that the UK has always been sovereign. Its just the "feels" that were all wrong. Even if Scotland is also about the "feels" why is that any different than Brexit.

If Brexit means Brexit, the Independence means Independence.

I'm not sick of the Scots talking about independence, I am sick of seeing Nicola Sturgeon on television playing the victim and blaming every man and his dog about Scotland's woes when she has such tunnel vision for independence and has forgotten about her day job.

I personally feel really sad about it. My stepfather Is Scottish. Hr has emraces england but we celebrate burns night every year for him. He moved here 15 years ago after he and my mum fell in love. He won't be allowed a vote in the next referendum I'm sure. Very sad that Scotland is being taken over by the nationalists. The irony is that If they had been successful in the 2014 referendum, they would be out of the EU already. Any excuse!

Bloody phone. Sorry for typos

Question Time today - One SNP but in the news surely?
Question Time last week - One SNP
Question Time - 2/03 - No SNP
Question Time - 23/02 - No SNP
Question Time - 16/02 - filmed in Scotland - One SNP
Question Time - 09/02 - No SNP
Question Time - 02/02 - No SNP

I think your prejudices are making you see more SNP people than you think.

"I am sick of seeing Nicola Sturgeon on television playing the victim and blaming every man and his dog about Scotland's woes when she has such tunnel vision for independence and has forgotten about her day job."

I am sick of seeing Farage on TV not even having a day job but getting to spout hate.

I am sick of seeing Tory MPs on TV caring more about Brexit and blaming the EU for everything and certainly not doing anything useful as MPs.

I am sick of seeing Boris Johnson on TV, doing his day job and making the UK look stupid.

Its what politicians do though.

You should try living here!

The SNP has no interest in governing for all the people of Scotland. If it hadn't been Brexit they'd have found some other reason to shout Indyref 2.
Scotland has such a good opportunity to use devolved powers for the better and yet education, health etc going tits up on Sturgeon's watch, despite all the 'positive' figures the SNP spout about! (Personal experiences of decline in both NHS and education provision)
The obsession with independence at all costs has had and continues to have a detrimental impact on Scotland. The SNP is a one trick pony who would rather pump money and time into fighting that governing.
Nicola Sturgeon has gone from being an assertive intelligent and extremely competent politician to a bitter, angry aggresive bully and it shines out of her in every interview and appearance. Apparently it's undemocratic to not grant Indyref 2 but it's NOT undemocratic to ignore the majority of the Scottish people who voted to remain in the UK. Go figure!
Apparently people who want independence from the EU are inward looking and foolish but it's fine to want independence from the rest of the UK. Go figure!
It's quite shocking and I can't believe people fall for it and fawn over Nicola and her gang. People need to wake up and wise up sharpish.

"The irony is that If they had been successful in the 2014 referendum, they would be out of the EU already."

This is possibly true but would be trying to get back in. So only really further ahead than the rest of the UK but heading in the opposite direction.

The Uk could have a referendum to leave the EU, but Westminster can stop Scotland having a referendum for the next 6 years, or as long as there is a Tory or Labour govt, i.e. forever
That's the difference

Not half as sick as I am.
They asked the question, the Scottish people gave them the answer!
" Once in a generation " they said , NOT keep asking the same question until you get the answer you want.
Scottish and proud to be , but enough is enough.
I didn't vote for Brexit but have to accept the majority vote , Nicola et al should have to do the same.

There is truth to what you say in some parts of the MintChocAddict

The issue is that independence is not about how the SNP run the Scottish Government. Independence is not a ministerial position and not a policy that can be enacted by the Scottish Parliament.

It is separate from the SNP as the elected political leadership of Scotland and covers more than one party. It is the policy of the most popular party in Scotland and they were elected on the platform of seeing another referendum if we left the EU.

I can't see why people have a thing for nationalist parties full stop. They are destructive. They pit each nation against the next instead of embracing and working together. Sad times.

If Scotland gained independence, the SNP would probably dissolve and normal left-right party politics would resume.
In the meantime, the SNP have a mandate as Scotland's biggest party - they get a far higher % of Scottish votes than the Tories get of Uk votes.

If the voters didn't support the SNP, ntbo, they wouldn't vote for them

"I can't see why people have a thing for nationalist parties full stop."

I think that all of our parties are nationalist to an extent. Tory Rule Britannia and Empire 2.0 and Brexit for a start. And if the line of division isnt a border its class or education or acceptance of immigration or acceptance of equality. Why is a desire for sovereignty a bad thing? Scotland doesnt have it.

"If Scotland gained independence, the SNP would probably dissolve and normal left-right party politics would resume."

I say this all the time and people disagree. I totally agree with you. Independence will actually end the SNP.

they are forever sticking SNP on question time
I suspect it is just that any time you hear a Scottish accent you assume it's an SNP person.

Maybe so scottishdiem

The fact remains though that the current Scottish government is so utterly obsessed with Independence that it fails to prioritise the day to day governance of Scotland and the needs of all of its people. That in itself is utterly shameful.

Well I think socialism is less divisive, unless you're stinking rich! 😂

"That in itself is utterly shameful."

Indeed. And it would be interesting if the opposition parties held them to account but instead they also play the independence card making it easier for the SNP to respond. Thus:

Opposition - Scottish student attainment rates are bad and social mobility is failing [should stop there but they dont] so imagine how bad it would be if Scotland were independent.

SNP - Well if we were independent we could use more levers of power to make a real difference.

Thus avoiding the issue and the question. The opposition make it so easy for them. And I am pro-Indy.

"socialism is less divisive,"

Mmmmmm. Socialism is full of divisions and splits and debates about ideological purity. No thank you.

The SNP are just a means to the end for many voters
They - and the Greens - support independence and a majority of Scottish voters chose one of these 2 parties
The minority of voters who are unionist naturally despise them ! That's just politics.

As regards neglect, the SNP would have to go a long way to match the neglect and downright hostility of sucessive Tory govts towards Scotland.
English Tories seem to regard Scotland like a rebellious colony, which must not be allowed to control its own destiny.

imo, rather than independence, we should have a fully federal UK, replacing the HoL by say 25 representatives of each of the 4 UK countries.
This new house should take over the "amending / checking" function of the HoL AND have the additonal right to veto major decisions like declaring war, or making / breaking treaties, trade agreements etc.

However, I'm English and I accept the rights of Scotland to self-determination, if they vote for it.
Polls currently 50:50

Mercy Nicola Sturgeon is also a prick. A fucking massive one

On Scotsnet I see. SNP member perhaps? I guess you're lovibg the over exposure!

That's a bit uncalled for. I'm not Scottish and I don't support the SNP - quite the contrary in fact - but I've been over on the discussions on Scotsnet and have been made to feel very welcome.

There has been some fantastic debate over the past few days, with passionate views on both side and some fierce disagreement, but it stays polite, with lots of good natured humour thrown in. One of the best discussions on here actually.

The scottish people voted for the SNP based on their manifesto that explicitly stated the possibility of a second referendum if there was a huge shift in circumstances, if Nicola Sturgeon didn't call a second referendum people would (quite rightly) be annoyed that the SNP had been elected on false pretences. Scotland voted both to stay in the UK and the EU, now they have to choose one or the other and they should be allowed to do that.