Dss abusive to his four year old half brother

[MrsWatt]

This came up on the thread about the cruise cabins that I posted yesterday. Luckily we resolved that issue.

Many posters were concerned about dss and four year old ds. He will tell his half brother to shut the fuck up and be fucking quite or piss off. This happens when ds is loud and playful but is particularly bad in the mornings when dss gets woken up by ds. He has also called his little brother a cunt. We do punish him for this behaviour but have given up because it is very difficult to punish a 17 year old as many might know.

When ds was a baby he was much kinder to him and actually used to play with him/hold him.

He has little consideration for his brother for example he was in a strop when we went as a family to Disneyland Paris. I know they are teenagers and wouldn't want to be at Disneyland as much as a four year old but it was only for two days and then they got two days in Paris which we tried to aim towards them.

This causes huge problems as my sons don't like his attitude and dh gets really angry at him. Dh used to be close to him but they aren't anymore he gets really cross at his sons behaviour and ends up giving him money to just go and do his own thing. He gets on much better with my sons and it must hurt to see them do things together when dss isn't. But it is clearly his own making due to poor and disrespectful behaviour. I think he's got into a vicious cycle where he rejects everybodies love as a protection because he rejects them first. It's a really sad state of affairs. His mum and him are close but she is very involved with the new boyfriend and seems to give him more attention than she does her son. He has seen a counsellor in the past but he ends up saying what they like to hear and then leaving.

I used to clash with him but I've actually ended up getting on better with him and dh ended up getting on worse. I think I have come to expect little from him.

Not really aibu but I thought I should post it hear since it links to the previous thread.

*The 4 year old has a right not be intimidated in his own home. He is a dependant and no choice where he lives.

Almost an adult? Don't like it, then leave! It is that simple.*

Yes! Simple!

Where do you suggest the 17 year old goes to live? Any simple suggestions??

Plus, I think a lot of teenage boys go through an anti-social phase where they just grunt at everyone except their 'cool' friends. Maybe the shouting is an extension of this. It is a phase and they emerge as lovely people in their 20s.
I think the 4yo is old enough to start having some consideration of the needs of other people, so perhaps calmly explain to them they need to try to be quiet at certain times and let 17yo sleep/study, and perhaps calmly explain to the 17yo that you sympathise but shouting is not going to work. Don't expect miracles on either side.
It must be hard to have teenagers and young childen in the same house, they have such different needs and function at different time zones, I hope you can all work it all out.

I am completely shocked at so many responses on this thread saying tell the 17 year old to leave (to where???), throw him out, send him to boarding school etc. I have noticed on MN that people seem to think that rearing a child is all over age 16/17. Is that an English or UK thing because I am Irish/US and nearly everyone I know in both countries still feels an immense sense of responsibility to their children at age 17. The 17 year old is being a complete pain. He is 17. It should be made clear to him that he cannot talk to his younger brother like that. But saying "get out" as a response. Jesus - who are you people

I agree. Some of the responses are totally disgusting.

The four year old should feel safe in his own home, but at the same time, the 17 year old should also feel safe and welcome. But the impression I'm getting is that he's seen as, and feels like, an interloper.

From his POV, he's gone from being an only child to suddenly having to adapt to having two step brothers and then a half brother. He must feel as though his dad has joined another family and he (the 17 year old) is just a tag-on, expected to get on with it. It must be a huge adjustment for him to go from such a tiny family (only child/single parent) to one of four, plus two parents.

Teenage boys around 16/17 do often become a bit anti-social, but added to this upheaval in his family life when he was a young teen(?), it's not a very good combination. Some one-on-one attention from his dad would probably go a huge way to calming things down. Kicking him out would probably be the worst thing that could happen to him right now.

That said, he can't continue swearing at the four year old. But is the four old being given consequences for his bad behaviour? It would drive me absolutely bonkers to have a screaming child outside my door every day, so I can't blame 17 year old for getting upset. Both the 4 and 17 year olds' behaviours need to be addressed in this situation. I echo previous comments to get family therapy.

The older boy has had his life turned upside down when his parents turned their backs on him and formed separate new families.
He is devastated naturally, and is only lashing out to express his unhappiness with the mess his parents have created for him.

Could your SS go and live with his grandparents? He's telling you all how unhappy he is but no one is really listening, his mother and father have both rejected him .
Your 4 year old needs protecting from him but also needs to learn not to scream.

I think Family therapy could be the answer, if you can afford it/get it.
Its not about one person telling the therapist anything, its about everyone in the family working on the issues - and is painful.

To be honest we were offered it once, and avoided it as we didn't think our issues were quite that "bad" yet.

How old are the other sons?

I also think your DH needs to make more effort to connect with his son, and spend time regularly with him, develop shared interests.

Oh and BTW my 18 and 20 year old would love Disneyland Paris.

I'd be so pissed at a screaming child almost every morning, who isn't told to be considerate while I am tired. I wouldn't be abusive but I don't know how I would have been when younger, I can have a sharp tongue and lack of sleep is a big issue for me. My mum used to wake me up everyday at 7 so I could leave the house by 8 with no money, in winter purely because I wasn't allowed in the house if everyone was out, I didn't get back in til about 7 each evening. It was hell and I hold a lot of resentment for not being able to sleep. Sleep is important and even more so at that age. Your four year old should not be screaming on the landing outside his door, how can you not see how awful that is, I'd open my door after a few weeks and probably yell at him to shut up! I have a three year old even she understands when to be quiet, you've enabled the four year old and in turn have cast the 17 year old aside.

you've enabled the four year old and in turn have cast the 17 year old aside

Agreed. I feel very sorry for the 17 year old. It's clear he's treated with total disregard by both his stepmother and his own father.

Start disciplining the four year old and teach him to respect the other members of the household and I bet a lot of the hostility between the 4 and 17 year olds will disappear.

Frankly, I'm surprised the 17 year old even WANTS to stay in the household with the current status quo.

Also feeling really sad for the 17 year old. I wonder what else is going on for him. Obviously he can't live with his Mum, he's also finding the toddler noise very stressful and I guess can't filter it as well as an adult but I wonder if it might be good to talk to him about why he shouts at his brother and how he's feeling about things in general.