To be insanely fucking angry at this reporting...

[WankingMonkey]

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/truth-female-sex-offenders/

Articles about record number of female criminals, lead with a picture of a transwoman. Rises in reported 'female' crime...ignoring that figures will be screwed from this day on given MALE crimes are logged as by females. And so on.

I am actually fucking raging about this and cannot vent anywhere except here as I would be deleted.

Surely noone actually thinks this is right?!

[DianaMemorialJam]

Yes Stef!

I would suggest assertiveness classes for the seeming lack of confidence

[webSocket]

The trouble is, how can you tell which kind of person it is going to be until it is too late?

You can't, but happily, we live in a society where you're 'innocent' until proven guilty.

That's why I don't think anyone should be judged on their mindset. We can judge them on their actions. A Man who feels they should have been born a woman deserves our understand and perhaps sympathy (due to current society) as opposed to immediately being faced with bigotry and hostility.

[DianaMemorialJam]

Women expect the same courtesy back from transgender people. If you have a penis, do not invade female safe spaces.

It may seem silly to them (as they are not biologically female) but this invasion of privacy and dignity is a frightening prospect for many vulnerable women.

[RakingUpBadMemories]

And, by your own phrasing above, websocket, a person who commits rape is a man.

So, Lisa is a man. Nice and simple.

In your research, how do you separate your subjects so that the self-identifying Lisa types are tested against the non-Lisas?

[RubyWinterstorm]

OP, yes, it is infuriating, at first sight.

But I think we are being played.

by writing articles as they do (bbc, times Daily mail) and simply adding the picture of a bloke (now known as Lisa) they are making us feel this anger (wait, what? Is that a woman? Says who?!)...we are being played.

If a news paper article goes on about female crime stats and sexual violence perpetrated by women, and then adds a picture of someone very obviously male...they engender exactly the reaction from us that they want, right?

To what purpose though? Click bait?

We ARE talking about it, I guess!

[MrsTrentReznor]

Diana
My kinda person. ?

[BakeOffBiscuits]

Web such aggression. Back the fuck off

[BakeOffBiscuits]

To what purpose though? Cick bait?

As you say Ruby at least it is being discussed and it is being brought out into the open. We need these instances to be published otherwise we won't know what is really going on. Which is people born as men, committing crimes, including rape and those criminals being recorded as female.

[DianaMemorialJam]

Oh yes please Mrs! Make sure it's tanqueray, I can't stand that cheap shite

[Sallysadlyseescertainty]

Yanbu. This is now getting pass the point of ridiculous!

[dangermouseisace]

I agree they genuine people deserve our empathy. However, when there are people who say they are transgender in order to facilitate the abuse of women then biological women need to have proper safe spaces. E.g. mental wards/prisons.

[MercyMyJewels]

OK, Mr Slightly More Than Averagely Intelligent Webman, you need to change your posting style next time as it gives you away every fucking time. As does your insistence on male and female brains. Now fuck off

[webSocket]

do not invade female safe spaces.

Anyone who uses the phrase 'safe space' immediately makes me think 'can you even adult'?

Women expect the same courtesy back from transgender people.

What discourtesy have you experienced? I'm not talking about rapists and others who live outside of societal norms, but more mainstream trans people.

So, Lisa is a man. Nice and simple.

Yes although not quite so simple. They'd be a category (out of M, F, M-F, F-M). Whilst I am aware of trans issues and research, my field has tended to stick with 2 genders / sexes. It focuses on aptitude and education in relation to sex.

In your research, how do you separate your subjects so that the self-identifying Lisa types are tested against the non-Lisas?

I don't know what you mean by non-Lisas, but all variations of Lisa would be treated as intriguing anomalies and sometimes, the variations which prove the rule.

I haven't argued for self identification. I have said that trans-people aren't the enemy and that treating them as a homogenous group defeats the object and principle.

[FlyingElbows]

Just out of interest what does the "RVO" stand for among your qualifications, Web?

[PoochSmooch]

Oh web, I am not going to enter into an email conversation with some stranger off the interwebs because he (really, I'm assuming he) thinks it's going to be above the heads of all the plebs on this board. I would only disappoint you, I'm sure

Let's have the conversation here. See if these silly wee lady-fluff-brains can keep up, eh?

[SanitysSake]

It's a segue. A clumsy, head scratching segue, but one nonetheless.

I wouldn't give the segue part headspace. Lots of academics use them and I've oft been left thinking 'oh, right-o'..

The main article is what should be considered, but she's kind of ruined the buy-in from her audience! Maybe the feedback on here might make her PhD research a bit more.. erm... enticing and less offensive to the masses.

But by virtue of doing it the way she has, some might say she has a MUCH wider audience for her piece as a consequence - as we're all now reading it and talking about it!

[RakingUpBadMemories]

'Lisa is a man'
'Yes'

Good. Now, why are you agreeing that Lisa is a man?

[DianaMemorialJam]

Anyone who uses the phrase 'safe space' immediately makes me think 'can you even adult'?

Again, all that education and you sound like you write articles for buzz feed.

If you are ok with penis bearing humans being allowed access to women's refuges, then good for you. personally? I would like abused women to retain a shred of dignity when fleeing from physical and sexual violence. That means: NO PENISES ALLOWED.

[Purplefoxpaws]

Ok I've not rtft in it's entirety, but I'm getting confused.

Can a man become "technically" a woman, in the eyes of the law, with a penis intact?

I agree this article is abhorrent.

[FlaviaAlbia]

At the moment, if he has a GRC yes purple

If Maria Miller's changes to the equality act go though this month then they won't have to bother with an official certificate. Just making a statement to say that they're a woman will be enough.

[ErrolTheDragon]

*do not invade female safe spaces.

Anyone who uses the phrase 'safe space' immediately makes me think 'can you even adult'? *

When people in this sort of discussion refer to 'safe space' they are not talking about the dangerous anti-free speech 'no platform' phenomenon currently plaguing universities. We mean actual, physical safe spaces such as women's refuges. I can only hope you didn't realise that.

[hackmum]

websocket: "because I believe there is a difference, I believe that some people can be 'in the wrong bodies'. I think there are typically male and female personalities, aptitudes and traits."

You could be right. I think you're wrong, as it happens, because the evidence is against you - think of all those years when people (men) believed that women couldn't be long-distance runners, or medical doctors, or comedians, or engineers, or any number of things because they weren't strong enough, clever enough, fast enough or funny enough. And now women do all those things because, guess what, the thing holding women back was not a lack of innate ability but social structures and social pressures.

But yes, you could be right. Even if you are, though, it's a huge leap to talk about someone being born in the "wrong" body. Even if you believe in innate differences, you must also know there's a huge overlap in abilities and characteristics, so some women are taller than the average male, better at physics than the average male, more interested in football than the average male. Some women (me included) prefer to wear trousers and don't like wearing make-up.

And yet those women still think of themselves as female. So what's going on there? What precisely is it that makes someone feel they're the "wrong" sex? And why is it that there's a whole new group of transgender people who claim not to identify with either sex?

In the end it comes down to the idea that some men, apparently, "feel" female. Some women "feel" male. I don't for one moment deny the reality of that feeling. I'm sure it's true for those people. But then I don't doubt the reality of someone with schizophrenia who hears voices. I'm sure they do hear voices. I'm sure that anorexics believe they are fat. I'm sure that some able-bodied people genuinely want to cut their leg off and live as an amputee.

What I can't accept is the idea that a man who "feels" like a woman really is, in essence, a woman, any more than I can accept that an anorexic really is fat. Because being a woman is, in the end, a banal matter of biology. I don't "feel" like a woman because I don't know how that feels. I am a woman through the fact of my biology.

[VestalVirgin]

Can a man become "technically" a woman, in the eyes of the law, with a penis intact?

This seems to have been the law in the UK for quite a while. With all the very predictable nasty consequences.

I am glad I don't live there, but apparently, local feminists here also want to get rid of women's rights to privacy and safety.
The world has become crazy.

[JapabSharted]

Let me add - that in the area of crime reporting, a GRC is apparently unnecessary. Police forces already record the offender's preferred identity without any further challenge. This has been the case for years.

[RakingUpBadMemories]

I think this is starting to boil down to:

'Which matters more, threats to mental wellbeing or threats to physical wellbeing?'