To be insanely fucking angry at this reporting...

[WankingMonkey]

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/truth-female-sex-offenders/

Articles about record number of female criminals, lead with a picture of a transwoman. Rises in reported 'female' crime...ignoring that figures will be screwed from this day on given MALE crimes are logged as by females. And so on.

I am actually fucking raging about this and cannot vent anywhere except here as I would be deleted.

Surely noone actually thinks this is right?!

[VestalVirgin]

Horses left to natural herd behaviour as they would in the wild show a great variety, mares often are the alfas even within domestic herds, as my mare is hypervigilant girl she is.

Yeah, the difference with horses is that the stallions never managed to establish a patriarchy. I assume misbehaving stallions are kicked out by the mares in the wild.
(Though I've never understood while lionesses keep male lions around. The male might be stronger, but they're more. Perhaps the mane serves as armour against a quickly delivered bite to the neck.)

[WobblyLegs5]

That's not true prawn, my mares sire still runs out in the herd with his mares and treats them wonderfully and fathers his foals rather than kicking them out.

Horses left to natural herd behaviour as they would in the wild show a great variety, mares often are the alfas even within domestic herds, as my mare is hypervigilant girl she is.

[FlyingElbows]

Prawn while I understand your point that's a bit if a generalisation about stallions. In an ideal world all ungraded colts would be gelded, but they're not (that's a huge equine welfare debate in itself). While some stallions certainly can be aggressive (and natural mating can be dangerous) there are plenty who aren't and who are managed perfectly well round the international competition circuits and on the domestic showing circuit. Temperament is an essential consideration of breeding. Nobody should be breeding from a vicious angry horse! If only the half wits churning out poorly conformed cut and shuts would bloody listen! The worst one we've ever had to deal with was a gelding. Vicious bastard savages everyone, if it was a dog it'd have to be pts!

[mathanxiety]

Stitchglitched:
There are specific consequences for victims that are unique to rape by a man
WebSocket:
That's a little misguided as you can only be raped by a man

And you cannot see how calling a rapist a woman starts to erode the definition of rape?

You really are not as intelligent as you claim you are if so.

[mathanxiety]

WebSocket -
What aspect of yourself are you defending? 'Women' being a closed class?

Yes.
Women is a closed class consisting of people with XX chromosomes.

Do you have a problem with basic biology?

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

Speaking of male animals, stallions are always castrated unless they are being kept for stud. Uncut stallions are extremely aggressive and, because of their size, strength and agility, they are very dangerous. Mating in horses can be pretty brutal.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Male animals just fight anyone

Well-socialised (entire) domestic dogs don't.

[VestalVirgin]

Is violence and aggression learnt behaviour or innate behaviour due to biological brain differences? Or a bit of both?

Bit of both.
Male animals just fight anyone.

Males who are very intentionally only violent against women and children in environments where they know they will get away with it (domestic violence and date rape) are obviously not just following what some brain chemistry tells them to do - if they did, they'd behave the same way when there's danger of getting caught.

[VestalVirgin]

I think this might be the research I remember, or close to it:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24600437

I am sceptical of research that looks for things such as toy choices, but apparently, they did not find any differences there, but did find differerences in prevalence of autism.

That said, while this is all very interesting, it doesn't really matter, as we already know males have a higher risk of offending than women, and that this does not change with gender identity.

[amispartacus]

I remember having read somewhere that the pathways for testosterone leading to male-type aggression are laid early, like, weeks after birth

Doesn't that imply a biological difference in male and female brains which affects behaviour due to hormone levels?

Is violence and aggression learnt behaviour or innate behaviour due to biological brain differences? Or a bit of both?

[VestalVirgin]

I remember having read somewhere that the pathways for testosterone leading to male-type aggression are laid early, like, weeks after birth.

If that doesn't happen - and in females, it doesn't - then testosterone does not lead to male-type aggression levels later in life.

[WobblyLegs5]

Erroll I know they are not. But if it was solely to do with testosterone there would be a proportional increase in line with the increase.

[Janey50]

The fucking world has gone mad.

[ErrolTheDragon]

neighbouring war like tribe

maybe thats the difference between football crowds and racegoers - football supporters are divided into rival 'tribes'.

If testosterone played a role wouldn't there be higher numbers of females with pcos in prisions?? Don't think that makes sense.

The testosterone levels are nothing like even the low end of the male range.

[Lessthanaballpark]

Hedgehog that's very interesting and thanks to your clever friend I do remember reading that women's status in some Native American tribes declined as trade and conflict with colonising Europeans (a "neighbouring war like tribe" if ever there was one!) increased.

[M0stlyBowlingHedgehog]

Actually (sorry, musing a bit more on the really interesting conversations with my anthropologist friend), she talked a bit about differential rates of domestic violence and its social context. Where societies face an external threat (neighbouring war like tribe) they tend to create a warrior caste, and rates of DV go up too - because (to use her analogy) violence is like a cocked and loaded gun - you don't quite know which direction it's going to go off in.

It makes me wonder (my speculation now) what part internet culture plays in creating a toxic culture of hypermasculinity: closed networks men cut off from social interaction with women, or more moderate men, egging each other on to become ever more misogynistic. (Ditto racial violence and Islamophobia, and also radicalised responses to racism in the form of young men being groomed to join ISIL for instance). You've got to wonder whether this is also spilling over into real life (and the "burn all TERFs/rape them with my lady dick" rhetoric on some extreme transactivist sites is just a subset of this general social trend).

[M0stlyBowlingHedgehog]

Vestal, I think the factors predisposing people to violence are a very complicated mixture. The anthropologist Kate Fox (who's studied football violence extensively) makes the point that male football fans and male racegoers (not the ones in the posh enclosures, the ones standing by the rail in the cheap bits) are largely drawn from the same demographic, in fact there's considerable overlap - but they kick off at football matches (sorry, bad pun), not at race courses. There are social factors that amplify violence or put the brakes on it.

Wobbly, I had a long conversation about matriarchies with a friend who's an anthropologist (I was roughing out the plot outline for a fantasy novel in which I had a female warrior caste, and wanted to make it plausible). She reckons there are no documented cases of matriarchies (where women have more political power than men), though there are of course matrilineal societies (where inheritance passes down the female line). Interestingly while I would naively have thought "rigidly demarcated sex roles" = "women get a really raw deal", it isn't as simple as that. There are societies where women have wielded fairly equal political power, but have had very rigidly demarcated gender roles in the social scientist's sense of gender as socially sanction roles and behaviour assigned to a given sex. (The Iroquois would be an example of this - women even had the power to veto decisions to go to war with neighbouring tribes - or encourage the men to go to war - they certainly weren't peace loving!)

[VestalVirgin]

The large study which found that transwomen commit crimes at the same rate as men also found that trans men had an increased crime rate over women (but not as much as males). So that would suggest that testosterone plays some role in aggression?

If so, it must be an one way street, as the MtT retain a male level of offending, which if I remember correctly is independent of castration via reassignment surgery.

I think either the testosterone causes irreversible changes in aggression level, or the FtT are just self-selecting for increased aggression level, and/or become more aggressive because they feel that is expected.

Or possibly both.

Some FtT are very misogynist, which would lead to more violence against women, and some might get it into their heads that they are "actually male" because they have anger issues and aren't able to conform to the feminine ideal of being peaceful and submissive.

Once transitioned, someone questioning their masculinity is a danger to their very lives (as they could be found out to be actually female) so it is entirely possible they feel they have to react with violence in situations where (they think) an actual man would.

Would be interesting to know what kinds of violence are more common - I think just trying to match the expectations for average male violence would just lead to an increase in participation in bar brawls and the like.

[WobblyLegs5]

Don't need to say sorry

[DianaMemorialJam]

Shit wobbly I've xposted with you again, sorry

[DianaMemorialJam]

Gillian McKieth scares the life out of me

She looks like the crypt keeper

[WobblyLegs5]

No problem yoda all a long time and alot of therapy ago

[DianaMemorialJam]

Fuck it Flying I knew I should have stayed at uni. I rock a badge so well. Maybe I could crochet one to make myself feel better

[WobblyLegs5]

If testosterone played a role wouldn't there be higher numbers of females with pcos in prisions?? Don't think that makes sense.

And there are a few matriarchail societies out their vestal, have no idea of crime stats though. Or the stats of the links of tribes where there is neither female or male dominance or western gender roles. And imagine other factors would influence crime stats in these societies.

M0stly I just replied to you on the other thread. I do have closure imo. But through therapy never had the chance to prosecute any of my abusers. And I should have had that. As any victim should have. I think the stats show around 10-15% of peadophiles are female from these few studies, but there are so few studies it's hard to take much from it and their maybe biases invloved either way that clouds the results. And csa figures don't necessarily correlate to other sex offenses, as you say it's less likely a woman would target strangers in the same way (that's not to say it never happens, women force sex on men, attack other women- a group of teenage girls I worked with sexually assaulted another girl with a lightbulb) but there are differences in offender patterns between males and females and we need research into actual female offenders not trans women fucking up the figures (and in terms of sexual offenses I would have thought they should have their own category as again offender patterns maybe different from men also). And yes from what I understand female sex offenders are most commonly mothers, step mothers or siblings.

[FlyingElbows]

You get a certificate and magic powers and special badge to sew on your cardi.