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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Universal Credit :-(

186 replies

LovelyBath77 · 06/03/2017 14:31

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/01/universal-credit-hits-families-with-children-hardest-study-finds?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-2

OP posts:
WomanScorned · 07/03/2017 02:37

My 21y old son, along with several of his friends works in a discount store. They are contracted to 8have p/week and have to vie/compete for extra hours. For example, a manager will text them at 7am, on their day off, them having worked the previous 10 days. Some days they will only be in from, say 2-6, but they can't do much else that day, other than wait to go to work for a poxy £20 - ttavel expenses. Alternatively, they might have done an 8 hr shift, say 8-4, and have plans, eg getting to the bank or shops before they close. But the way it works is if they then refuse (or are unable) to stay on for an extra 4 hours, or to come in on their day off, with as little as an hour'so notice, they will be 'punished' by being denied any extra hours the following week.

So, they're working for £5 p/h. For this, they must be available 24/7, cannot make plans, can't risk buying, say, gig tickets, as they would be a waste of precious money if work calls them in.

How the hell are these under 25's supposed to pay their rent?

Move back home? Not an option as I had to flee the area due to DV. There is no longer a 'family home' to move back to. His mate's mum had to downsize due to the 'bedroom tax', so him moving in on her would mean them sharing a bed, as his brother is already on he settee and there's no space for another bed.

Get a better job, with regular hours? They don't exist! Zero hours contracts on min wage is the norm, here.

Go to uni? Get a career? The only guaranteed outcome is a huge debt. This also assumes they'really sufficiently academic. Not all are. Especially after 5 years of constantly changing supply teachers at a failing state comp.

Where are all these shared houses? Do landlords even offer them any more, what with all the hoops they have to jump through, along with the likelihood of frequent partial voids/flits. HMOs are generally more more hassle for landlords.

My DS relies on HB top up. Under UC, he might meet the criteria to be excepted from the HB ban (employed for previous 6 months maybe?) He would, however, have to give up his long term rental flat, as it isnt shared, find one of these rare and probably more expensive privately rented HMO's, from a LL willing and able to accept HB, which would be a Change of Circs, triggering more paperwork/complications/delays. And then move every 6 months or so, each time notifying of a Change of Circs and starving for 10 weeks again, whilst job searching full time.

And then try sleeping during the day, after a run of night shifts, while the day shift worker and his mates, on the other side of the partition shout to each other to be heard above the sound of their music? And the door constantly banging for one of the other residents?

Presumably no right to HB also means no recourse to the LA controlled hardship fund? So no help with 6 monthly fees for re-signing tenancy contracts? Or moving again?

I guess they could always join up. Because they're old enough to fight and die for the country they're not old enough to receive assistance from, aren't they? No recourse to the public funds their taxes bolster? If they return disabled, maybe with PTSDr, will they be able to access health care? Or will that be limited by age, now? Housing, fuel payments (aka winter holiday abroad paymentd), benefits, health care all reserved exclusively for wealthy baby boomers while a generation of young men and women sleep on the streets?

Being young and and working class/poor, right now, right here, is shit. It's unjust and it's miserable and depressing and hopeless.

Graphista · 07/03/2017 04:43

If you're on benefits alone you're likely already living hand to mouth - bloody 'save' indeed!

Transitional protection barely exists when you consider all the ways they can remove it (ANY change of circs so change of employment status - even a 1 hour change in contract, change of health status, change of address, children aging out of eligibility, spouses change of circs - and that's BEFORE you consider they keep changing the bloody goalposts!)

Also transitional protection means you receive the same amount until you would be entitled under UC to receive more than that - like a pay freeze.

I've said this regularly on such threads (I'm sure others on benefits will know what I mean) the SECOND you have to notify a change of circs ALL money stops while they 'investigate' and it takes ages till its reinstated BUT if a mistake is made that means a recipient owes govt money THAT'S taken immediately!

Childcare - childcare providers need advance notice in order to ensure their OWN income is regular AND to ensure they're staying within the law on ratios etc. Therefore shift work as a Lp is pretty impossible as you need to arrange and pay for more hours than you need in order to cover the hours you actually need.

MrsSkeffington have you ever been poor/on benefits? Because it doesn't sound like it. The reason I'm worried sick is because I've experienced first hand what happens every time there's a major policy change of this kind - it's never the govt that loses out!!

Msm are OWNED by tories frankly they don't give a stuff about the poor or even ordinary people except when it makes them money!

Those saying 'well people should be working/working more hours' you do realise there AREN'T enough jobs out there?

Re young ADULTS not getting housing benefit - not everyone can safely 'stay at home'. Or are forced out for reasons beyond their control (bereavement, parents wanting them out) plus that puts additional financial pressure on their parents and limits where they can look for work so hardly encouraging them into jobs! I left home at 18 to escape an abusive homelike, I luckily had a full time job and managed to find lodgings near work. I know others who weren't so lucky - we thought it was bad enough then (early 90's) this is FAR worse! And it may not be necessarily they don't WANT to share either but that such places aren't available, there's certainly very few house shares/bedsits where I live. And people don't tend to take in lodgers because it then affects THEIR finances - it's a shambles!

The young people less likely to go to uni are usually ALREADY from a poor background and have had a lesser education and less support while in school so less likely to meet entry requirements.

And YES to you don't know what's round the corner. When I had my dd I was healthy, married, working full time in a good job (had worked since 16) had savings, within 5 years I'd ended up divorced (he cheated), almost homeless with a 2 yr old, in a car accident (not my fault) that led to physical disability and contributed to a mental breakdown.

It should be illegal to have zero hours contracts, rolling temp contracts (technically illegal but employers use loopholes), rolling shifts (what's the 'business reason' for this?), short hour contracts where the 'overtime' is actually regular (meaning the employees are actually working full time hours regularly but not getting the pay & conditions they're entitled to).

The poor, sick, disabled, young are all being attacked and nobody is defending them.

Headofthehive55 · 07/03/2017 05:39

I agree there user enough well paid jobs out there. I think we are drifting towards a less well off country situation. It's not surprising that social security provisions are cut, worrying though that is.
I do however see in my own family people not wanting to work more hours "I'm tired" and not wanting to work at any job " it's not what my degrees in and it's not what I want to do" whilst simultaneously asking family for handouts and help.

sashh · 07/03/2017 05:40

I think if one parent cannot work then there will be protection if disabled the same as there is now

That protection has all but gone now.

Graphista · 07/03/2017 08:01

Over 2000 jobs gone from my small town in last year alone.

angeldelightedme · 07/03/2017 08:25

People do need to take personal responsibility instead of relying on everyone else to carry them

bloodyteenagers · 07/03/2017 08:26

People generally do take responsibility for themselves.
Just shit happens out of there control what is so hard to understand that?

Graphista · 07/03/2017 08:28

What like those born into wealth do?

digitalsynopsis.com/inspiration/privileged-kids-on-a-plate-pencilsword-toby-morris/

ZilphasHatpin · 07/03/2017 08:57

People do need to take personal responsibility instead of relying on everyone else to carry them

Who do you imagine you're talking about when you say that statement?

Dawndonnaagain · 07/03/2017 09:12

People do need to take personal responsibility instead of relying on everyone else to carry them
do tell. I'm all ears.

bluetongue · 07/03/2017 09:38

Maintain the rage people. It's easy for safety nets to be chipped away bit by bit and not notice.

A few years ago in Australia they tried to introduce legislation that would make under 25s wait 6 months for any government assistance. Yep, they expected them to live off fresh air yet still apply for jobs and get to interviews. After much public outrage the legislation was dropped. Think the elites probably also realised that they might need to add barb wire or electric fences to their properties.

PausingFlatly · 07/03/2017 10:43

"I think we are drifting towards a less well off country situation. It's not surprising that social security provisions are cut, worrying though that is."

Do you mean that GDP is going down?

Or do you mean we're moving towards a country with similar GDP, where an increasing number of people are poor despite there being wealth in the country?

Because if the latter, I agree with the first part.

Obviously Brexit will throw GDP-predictions up in the air, but separate from that I think over the last few decades we've become a country where there are a lot of people at the bottom not sharing in the wealth of the country.

The disappearance overseas of middle-tier jobs in admin and manufacturing means the UK now has an hour-glass shaped economy: jobs at the top; poorly paid jobs primarily in services at the bottom; and not much left in the middle.

I don't find it "not surprising that social security provisions are cut".

I find it the opposite.

If we're designing an economy like this, we need realistic plans for the bulk of the population who are at the bottom - that don't consist simply of jeering, "Well you shouldn't be at the bottom then, should you!"

People need a route to have lives which are humane and purposeful, within the bottom tier. Because the numbers game requires a lot of people to be in that tier for a lot of their lives.

This might not even mean increase of social security provision, because there's much that could be done wrt cost of housing and security of wages (if any govt cared to do it). But it certainly can't be done with a cut of social security under current conditions.

PausingFlatly · 07/03/2017 10:54

And BTW, for anyone who is pro cuts and pro artificial pressure (expensive makeworks like more frequent signing on and fake "jobseekers' courses" and sanctions after impossible-to-meet demands), you do realise the people whose lives are becoming intolerable have a vote? Who do you think they're going to use it for?

Because if the only answer is, "Well at least they won't vote for [poster's political enemy]", then frankly we're toast.

Who are they going to vote FOR, not AGAINST? For anyone who comes marching out of the mist with shiny banners promising the earth and all that's in it, that's who.

Particularly if the Saviour has no track record to be held against them - they'll be able to promise absolutely anything and people will take a punt on it, why not?

PausingFlatly · 07/03/2017 11:00

(Sorry, that was ambiguous. Headofthehive55, my posts are generally meant, not a personal response to you. I just picked up part of your wording because it was a good place to start: I'm not suggesting you hold any particular views.)

Headofthehive55 · 07/03/2017 12:27

I agree with you that there just aren't the middle income jobs. Many of the graduates I know are in poorly paid jobs with little hope of progression.

And I was thinking if brexit, when I suggested drifting towards a less well off economy.

EminemTickets · 07/03/2017 13:33

At the Job Centre this morning a woman next to me got asked what she knew about UC and she looked really awkward and said 'only bad stuff'. Her interrogator looked really pissed off and snapped 'like what? from where?' and the poor woman realized she'd screwed up and couldn't get her words out, she ended up saying 'only what I've seen on the news'.
The guy was a prick, why ask questions if you don't want honest answers

LisaMed1 · 07/03/2017 15:07

I've just realised...

If I die at the same ages as my mother (cancer, I've just been given an all clear from minor version) and DH dies at the same age as his father (heart attack, DH has blood pressure issues), ds will be an orphan before he is 25.

Now very worried.

HelenaDove · 07/03/2017 15:25

angeldelight Hope if you ever get sick one night you are not treated by a young nurse who hasnt been able to sleep all day due to living in a noisy shared house.
Being tired would increase her chances of making a mistake.

AndKnowItsSeven · 07/03/2017 15:27

Lisa really sorry for your losses, the new rules have provisions for vulnerable young people which your ds would be classed as. Also the total loss of housing support is for people under 22 not 25.

LovelyBath77 · 07/03/2017 16:24

I was just about to ask if there were some rules for more vulnerable young people. That sounds hopeful.

OP posts:
RosyGold · 07/03/2017 17:02

I was totally fucked when waiting the 6 weeks for my UC claim to be awarded. Obviously my CTC was stopped as my circumstances had changed and CTC was to be included in my UC. I couldn't pay my rent that whole time and had to rely on family to help me out with money for gas, electric and food for myself and one year old DD. I'm still in rent arrears now because of the time it took to process the claim! I
However, I was able to get an "advance" of about £400 but I'm having to pay this off £78 a month out of my UC for 6 months - but I had to do it because Christmas was around the corner!

JingleMum · 07/03/2017 18:04

I am genuinely worried for those that rely on help from the Govt Sad One of my freelance jobs involves speaking to members of the public about current affairs. Some of those I speak to are going to be hit SO hard by UC. They are terrified & my heart breaks for them. It's simply not that easy for them to "get a better paid job"

My cousin is a single parent with one 6 year old, she works 24 hours a week & claims some tax credits. She is pregnant with another baby to her ex, he doesn't want to reconcile & she is devastated. Does this mean she'll be moved to UC once she has the baby in August due to a change in circumstances? If so I need to mention it to her as she'll need to prepare.

LovelyBath77 · 07/03/2017 18:48

Not sure. Tax credits do an online chat which is quite helpful. I hear people are being moved over between 2019 and 2022. In general.

OP posts:
JingleMum · 07/03/2017 18:57

lovelybath I wasn't sure if her change in circumstances would trigger a move to UC as I know in our area UC is up & running for those who are unemployed/childless. I worry for her, she's vulnerable & I believe she'll struggle greatly under UC. I'd like to help her prepare (If I can) if it means that due to having another child she'll be moving to UC. I wonder how I can find out? I don't want to worry her by mentioning it just yet, she has enough on her plate.

JingleMum · 07/03/2017 19:00

Rosygold What was your change in circumstance that triggered the move to UC? How awful to go through that. Those evil bastards are destroying people's lives with this cruel system Angry

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