To consider giving "lines" to my 7 year old.

[Originalfoogirl]

We're having a bit of an issue here and I'm trying to find a way of dealing with it.

Our girl is 7, generally pretty well behaved, generally takes a telling and if told "no you can't have that" or "no we can't do that" she just accepts it.

Where we have a problem is, sometimes if we give her in to trouble for something, always pretty minor and the telling off is just a "can you please not do that" she can sometimes lose it a bit and start crying. Mostly it all blows over quickly, but occasionally she will really lose it and it ends up with her just yelling and crying. We've tried all sorts of ways of dealing with it and haven't really found a good one. It all ends with a calm conversation about what just happened and promises (on both sides) to do better next time.

Our current method is to basically let her get on with it and tell her we will talk to her when she stops yelling. It seems to have been working, the last time she only yelled for a few minutes and I thought we had it cracked. But tonight she got out of bed at ten pm with a spurious night time attention request (we've had a few nights of her not being able to get to sleep, which happens from time to time). We refused to pander to it, as it's become a bit of a habit. I told her the last time she asked, we wouldn't be doing it again. She did not like this and right royally kicked off. Shouted, yelled, and even screamed, which is a big no no in our house. She threw the mother of all tantrums and the ignoring thing didn't work, seemed to make it worse. Eventually I told her if I came upstairs, which is what she was insisting I did, it would be to close her door (she hates that) and she would be in her room all day tomorrow. She stopped, went to bed and fell asleep.

So, needless to say, tomorrow we are going to have to have words. She already is off screens because she's had trouble sleeping and I know that can cause sleep issues, so the "no telly" thing won't work. There isn't really anything else I can think of to take away from her, and anyway, that's never been too effective. So, I wondered, would it be weird, or terrible to give her lines tomorrow? Is that all outdated? Do schools still do it? Am I nuts for even thinking about it?

Or can anyone else suggest an alternative? How on earth do you deal with a tantrumming 7 year old who will literally just scream "I just want to talk to you" over and over again. I've tried a couple of times saying "ok, let's talk" and she actually doesn't really have anything to say. It seems to be an attention thing, but seriously, she is the most attended child ever because of her disability.

I have talked to her extensively to see if anything is bothering her. She did have a few sleep issues a few weeks back when a scary story was doing the rounds, But she got over that ok and was sleeping fine. We talk a lot about how she is feeling and sharing our worries. If she is bothered by something she usually tells us.

Ready to be royally roasted - interested to hear whether it's a really terrible idea!

I was given lines by my mum at 7 and was old enough not to demand attention at night, I wasn't particularly mature for my age either. That said I don't think lines the following day would be effective, a bit too late after the incident and likely to set everything off again.

Nice for you Faez. My DH wasn't allowed attention at night and still remembers lying awake feeling anxious at night (at older than 7). You don't have to let them get up watch movies and eat biscuits just put them back to bed with a bit of kindness. I got lines at school and it just made me feel resentful and if anything made my behaviour and attitude worse (although I was generally a good student).

Lines?

As in writing out lines?

Seriously?

😂

Are you her mother or her teacher?

Anyway I have a seven year old. He gets scared of the dark and will take ages to settle if he doesn't get that reassurance. So we make sure he's tucked up in bed early (7pm), with an audio book and the door ajar. We sit with him for a bit with the lights out and he knows he can call us if he needs to. He settles very quickly now.

What is her routine like? What sort of behaviour issues beyond getting a bit stroppy are you having?

My ds gets very emotional and wound up in his responses. Even though he's 7, he's not always able to articulate his responses or control his emotions and it all comes pouring out. Sometimes he needs a cuddle and just to sit with me or DH - the key is recognising that need. If he asks for a cuddle it's usually when he's desperate and has needed one for a while and I've missed that cue.

She wants your attention as she is having trouble sleeping?

Do you have a set bedtime routine ie bath, snack, drink, story etc?

Have you tried giving her a list of things she can do, instead of shouting downstairs to you when she can't sleep? Ie read quietly in bed, draw, music, relax techs etc?

Sorry if I missed this part, but you mentioned her 'disability'. What disability is that?

I missed that too. Where is the post about a disability?

Sounds like she's struggling to deal with emotions, especially when tired - not sure punishment of any description is appropriate. You sound very keen to have a perfectly behaved child - presumably no siblings? You need to relax a little and then maybe so will she.

Please don't shut the door on her. This is a big fear of mine and has been since I was about your DDs age. Please don't threaten it. My mother did and it still lives with me now and I am late 40s.

Imagine being scared of spiders and having one thrown on you.

Imagine being scared of heights and being dangled off one.

Imagine being scared of water and thrown in the pool.

I'm sure you get the idea.

I agree she doesn't really need a punishment. I've got a 5 year old. He shouts out and doesn't want me to leave sometimes but generally he's fine.

If he's not settling I let him play in his room and generally about 10/15 minutes later he'll shout down "goodnight".

I've tried lying with him but he just messes around and then still refuses to let me leave even if I've lay with him for 1 hour.

He gets a bath and story every night and lots of kisses and cuddles. He also has a leap frog so he can sit in his bed and read books to himself.

If he ever has a bad night of crying and screaming as he wants me there I just generally deal with it. Write my evening off and talk to him reassure him sometimes I just sit as his door with my back turned on my phone so he knows I'm there.

I don't punish the next day as what's the point? I remember doing similiar as a child. It's what children do they generally resist bedtime.

You child is reaching out to you because you are her mummy and she needs you for emotional support. You say yourself she has been scared recently after hearing a frightening story. And you want to punish her? Is this what you really want, to stop her coming to you when she needs you? Shivering alone in the dark?

Yes.. threatening her with her fear so she shuts up and goes to sleep is very very harsh.

I just want to talk to you means I feel anxious or distressed or worried about something either I can't articulate or is difficult to talk about. Could you give her what she needs and just listen to her or hold her or sit next to her for a bit. It make take a while for her to open up and if the situation has already escalated, it will take even longer for her to open up.

And she is disabled

thethoughtfox: The OP hasn't given any detail in her DD's disability. It may be irrelevant. And "I just want to talk to you" may mean @I just want your attention" - at 10pm that isn't what she needs unless she is ill or scared. She needs sleep.

Yes, I do think, as far as possible, the punishment should fit the crime. Bit like the law removes your licence to drive if you show you can't follow the rules, or your car is towed away if you leave it somewhere stupid.

InTheDessert:

But why?

And what about prison, the standard adult punishment for most crimes in the U.K.? That usually has little relation to the offence.

In the past, great efforts were gone to in order that punishments should 'fit' as well as possible. The results were barbaric. In a civilised society we can deal with there abstract - so X, Y will follow. 7 is old enough to understand that. 2 isn't, which is why we use more 'natural' consequences for toddlers.

I wouldn't give lines because there's no evidence it achieves anything.

My favourite when ds got up at night was to say "Hi DS, I'm surprised your awake as it's bedtime. I'm going to bed - night!". And leave him standing there.

You say she has a disability? Would you share what that is? Do you think that could be impacting in her attention seeking? Is it stopping her developing as her peers do in one area and that's upsetting her?
My ds has asd and often when he overreacts to something it has nothing to do with what I've actually said!

what's her disability, op?

Some great replies here, thanks. I was trying to think outside the box - and that was the point of me asking.

To answer some questions. She isn't afraid of the dark or having her door shut, she just doesn't like it. She's happy enough to go in there and shut her door herself, she just doesn't like it if I say I'm going to do it. I always say to her it's because I don't want to hear the screaming and she can open it again when she quietens down.

Her disability is a physical one. It doesn't affect her cognitively. She generally just gets on with having it. It doesn't seem to bother her. She just seems to take everything in her stride. I know one day we will hit the "it's not fair, why me" stage, but she's not there yet. We work with Ed Psych on how to recognise and deal with that stuff. And, thethoughtfox You appear to suggest that because she has a disability, she shouldn't have consequences. What nonsense. She isn't to be pitied and children with disabilities are children the same as any other. Your attitude, frankly appalls me.

The "I just want to talk to you" doesn't actually mean she wants to talk. I'm fairly certain of that. It can be interchanged with, "I just need to say something" "why don't you listen" etc. Last night what she "just wanted to talk" about was the thing we had said we weren't going to do. (Which, incidentally, was turn her duvet over). The thing she needed to say was "I need you to turn my duvet over". She has plenty of form on it. Believe me, those "I need to talk" moments are actually "give me attention right now" moments. And that isn't happening at 10pm.

We do all the bedtime routine stuff. Generally, she sleeps well. We have offered dozens of solutions to the plethora of reasons she gives for being unable to sleep. Nothing ever works apparently. We've done the mindfulness stuff, making sure her room is cool enough, checking she's comfortable etc. She just has phases, as we all do, where she struggles to get off to sleep. It doesn't generally bother me because I know it will pass, the frustration is she expects me to fix it, to magically send her off to sleep and beyond the tips I offered, I can't do that. Turning the duvet over has become the magic bullet and it wasn't generally a problem til she asked for it to be done five times, the night before last - one of which was at 3am. It has become a habit and it needs sorted.

Someone suggested she was being punished because she asked for help. No, she is being punished because she screamed at us for half an hour because she didn't get her own way. That is not acceptable.

Someone also said she won't confide in me. Interesting how so many are claiming to know our daughter so well 🙄. Anyway, she confides in me just fine.

Because of her disability we have to have quite a bit of chat about things which are going on in her life. It hadn't occurred to me that a 7 year old wouldn't be capable of that. They do a lot of that sort of thing at school. I'm always aware that things like bullying are a possibility, or that she is having issues with her friends. When that happens, she tells me. She's quite a forthright, confident girl and tends to stand up for herself well. She has a big group of friends at school, and a few very close ones. May be famous last words but I'm 99% sure she isn't being bullied or having problems with her friends.

I like some of the ideas you have given, italian especially had some things to think about.

But I do notice there is still no suggested alternative consequence offered for her behaviour. 😆

I think its difficult because at age 7, formal understanding is still a bit limited. Therefore giving her lines to write is really unhelpful (and a bit strange tbh .

Screaming and shouting is obviously not acceptable. I think you dealt with it at the time and that is the end of it. Maybe a talk the next day. Unless resisting bedtime is a serious and regular thing, in which case there may be other issues that neither we, you nor your daughter know about.

And a very short talk as she's only 7 about bedtimes and why mummy needs to sleep too, etc!

greenthings

I hade no idea how the lines idea would go down. Now I know 😂

She generally doesn't resist bedtime, getting ready, going to bed, lights out etc. She is usually asleep within ten minutes but the problem comes when she isn't. She tends towards the dramatic so "oh no I've been awake for Hours, I'm never going to get to sleep i'l be awake alllll night" 🙄 And of course that makes it worse.

The problem is as you rightly say no one else knows your daughter like you do, so what do you think the issue is.

I have one the same age and I have noticed there is an emotional struggle between starting the growing up process, being in junior school and increasing difficulty of work and letting go of being child and starting to be a tween.

I think you want a rational logical explanation for emotional behaviour and we all know emotions aren't always that way. There is a reason the vulcans in Star Trek ignored then because they do not follow it.

It's the start as well I think of her finding her own independence in thinking.

In terms of lines no, don't add a negative connotation to stuff she does at work

quartz2208

I really don't know what the issue is. But I do know what it isn't. Clearly she isn't getting something she needs. The sleeping thing will sort itself out, it always does. I'm not sure whether it is to do with her meds or her disability, but it does pass.

It's the how to deal with her tantrums, which, although relatively sporadic, are quite spectacular and we have all fallen in to habits with it. She shouts, we ignore, she shouts more, we get annoyed, WW3 erupts. Mr Foo loses it more quickly than I do. We have spoken about it lots and we know that us losing our patience and reacting as we do is not a good idea. For the most part we have improved on that a lot. But we are only human and still blow up from time to time. She has done this since she was wee, so it isn't out of character for her. But that also means we aren't dealing with it effectively and that worries me.

I think you could be right. The P2 - P3 transition is a tough one for them, she has dealt with it brilliantly at school, no issues with her struggling there. I didn't think she was struggling with the emotional stuff. But she could be - and of course, being emotional she doesn't really understand what it is that she is feeling so isn't voicing it. She is incredibly articulate, very bright and has a really good ability to discuss things in a grown up way about her disability or school stuff, but if it is about emotions she is less able. She comes across as being able to cope with what life has thrown at her. Maybe we've over estimated that somewhat. She will be having surgery in a couple of months, she's quite accepting of that. Talk to her and she says she's fine with it. Maybe she isn't.

Question is, if these things are bothering her, and she claims they aren't. What on earth to do about it?

I have one who can seem very grown up but emotionally she is definitely her age

With her tantrums does it relate to food, mine is far harder to deal with when hungry and always has toast at 8 before bed. It's not for everyone but she needs it

The thing is night time has a habit of bringing to the fore all the thoughts and feelings we are ok with in the daytime where we have everything going on. When the lights turn off there is nothing else and things such as the surgery could be playing on her mind.

I think as well it's an age where you start to grasp the fact that you are getting older and that life has an end and it's a lot to process

Is there anything a little bit grown up that she wants to do? You could then reward her with that activity if she has a week with no tantrums. Having a tantrum is very childish so you can explain that if she does it she is showing she is not grown up enough for the activity.

As for the night time thing I wouldn't ignore the tantrum. I would take her back to bed calmly and quietly every time. If DH is getting wound up by it he can take a break in another room for 5 mins. Everyone loses their cool sometimes, but if DD has already lost it, you both need keep calm. And treat yourselves once she is in bed 'bloody hell that was hard, shall we have some wine / chocolate to celebrate getting through it?'