To have asked for £160 from a single mum on income support

[lucindia]

I'm a childminder. I looked after a child for a single mum on income support. She was doing the 15 hours free hours. She phoned to tell me she would be sending her daughter to the local school in 4 weeks time.

So I contacted the funding department to explain that I would no longer be having the child and the date that would start.

They got back to me and said they would only be able to pay the first week of the notice period and the rest would have to be paid for by the parent.

Even though the mum had given me a months notice, I didn't actually have her child at all during that month. The day she text to say she would be going to school in a months time, was the day she stopped coming to me as the Mum was visiting family for a month.

But I was still entitled to be paid for that month. It was also a compulsory notice period.

So I sent a very polite message to the Mum explaining that she would have a balance of £160 to pay as the funding department could only pay 1 weeks notice.

She said that was fine but would need to wait until her income support payment came in the next day and would then send me that. She would send the £60 the following week from her child tax credit.

I thought nothing of it.

I mentioned it in passing to my mother in law (who I get on very well with) and she said she couldn't believe I made her pay £160 when I never even looked after her child for that notice period month and that seeing as my husband and I have a joint income of 40k we could have easily afford to let her off with the £160 which was a lot for a single mum on income support.

I never considered I was doing anything wrong. I'm entitled to be paid for that month and there's a notice period for a reason.

I really like the girls mum and we always had a great relationship when her daughter was with me. She's been with me from before she was 1 as her mum was finishing university.

What do you think. Was I unreasonable to ask for the money?

She's on benefits but qualified in a professional job and job hunting. So does have options.

I still don't understand the fee bit - why was only one week of the notice period covered? That seems a bit shit.

But anyway, YANBU OP as you had a contract and those were the rules of the contract etc. etc. and I don't think you were being mean as you appear to have not even considered that something was wrong until your MIL said it to you - if you had thought beforehand 'oh she might not be able to afford to pay and asking for the money could put her and her child in a really difficult situation' and then asked for the money, I'd see that as mean but if the thought never occurred to you then you were just doing business as normal.

I don't think I could have in good conscience charged her unless I was in a bad financial condition myself. And many self-employed/micro-companies perform good will gestures like this, my OH and his dad have their own company and they will sometimes lower their charge or let someone pay in kind instead in order to create good client relationships and increase the chance of future work. Today OH went out giving free fish from our nets to clients, that they would have paid for if asked, because good will is worth more.

Would you expect a plumber to charge a call out fee even if when he got there the problem had sorter itself?

Because of what I mentioned in the previous paragraph about my OH and his dad, I wouldn't actually expect a plumber to charge a call out fee if the problem resolved itself because we've created good business relationships with most of the local businesses so they do good will gestures too.

In this situation it wasn't unreasonable to ask for the money, but it wasn't kind either.

Mollies woukd you be happy for your pay packet to be down £160 ?

YANBU at all. I don't think I'd have asked for the money if I could afford not to but I would have asked for the money if I'd miss it that month.

YANBU but I would never ever have taken that money.

In your shoes I would probably refund half knowing that will be a huge sum of money to her.

OP, despite the bashing you've had from some on here, you really haven't done anything wrong.

Some posters keep going on about the fact that OP "didn't even look after the child during the notice period" - but that wasn't OP's fault! She has a -perfectly reasonable - 4 week notice period, as that is the minimum time that she can expect to need to fill a sudden vacancy. The customer was made fully aware of this and yet only gave notice on the final day that her child attended the setting. Presumably, the mother assumed that the funding would be available for the full 4-week notice (since this is a pretty standard notice period for childminders) but she should have checked.

The mother seems to have completely owned her mistake, since she didn't dispute the amount owed and paid it with good grace. OP's MIL and a number of random MN posters, on the other hand, clearly have no idea about the realities of running a business.

OP, good for you and good for your ex-customer that you both agreed on the sensible way to handle this. I do feel sorry for the mother, but in the end she only has herself to blame as she knew full well when her child would leave your care, and she could have given you notice 4 weeks earlier, meaning that full funding would still have been available (as you would still only have needed to notify them a week before the child started school).

I think that you are entitled. However, u did not work either. So half.

To suggest the posters who are saying they'd not charge don't understand business is ridiculous. You can run a business and judge your own financial ability to be compassionate, give mates rates etc. As I and another poster have stated, both our Dh's are able to do so and run a business. Of course the OP is the only one who knows if she had been financially able to do so or not and had the right to choose not to do something kind if she didn't want to. That doesn't mean however that those of us who would have put ourselves out of pocket in this instance don't understand business!

If I didn't do the work I couldn't ask for money for a job that I didn't do if I had done the work then I would expect to be paid. I am a makeup artist if I didn't do the makeup and was still asking for the money from a regular client that would be wrong if I did the job I would expect the money.

Mollie what if you turned down other work, arrived on the day and were told your services weren't required?

Everyone saying the op "did not work", this is not necessarily true.
If this had happened to me and a child left my care with a days notice I would still be working with my other families but minus a large portion of my income. It may not be the case of the op having leisurely days at the parents expense.
I would also be out of pocket for the groups and classes that I pre-book for the term as the group leaders would quite rightly expect to be paid the required notice period.
Also I spend a lot of money to create a healthy varied menu for the month ahead and will have already purchased at least a weeks worth of fresh food. Granted this wouldn't be a large sum of money, but a loss to my business just the same.

That's not what she did though Stealth. Neither the mother or the OP knew that the funding would be stopped. The mother gave the 4 weeks notice as she needed to with I'd assume the expectation that the funding would continue until the end of those 4 weeks. They then both found out that the funding didn't. It wasn't the mothers fault for not giving enough notice.

Nobody knows if it's a huge sum on money to her, IS is a passport benefit to lots of others and is subject to the benefits cap. She could have a higher income than some workers.

She owed the money she paid, the OP shouldn't have to forfeit her salary and give charity.

I still wouldn't ask to be paid if I cancelled clients and a client then contacted me and said they didn't require my services I would be annoyed but there is nothing I can do about that I certainly wouldn't charge them. I can see it from both sides but the mother did give the notice. If you are going to charge her for anything it would be for inconvenience but not £160 that's probably her money for a few weeks and she is a single parent. I would come up with some sort of deal and resolve the issue.

Rainbows and unicorns income support is pretty much the same for all people it is on the direct gov website. If you have a look it isn't that much I wouldn't say it's a charity it's a case of figuring out something together.

Genuine question, do other self employed people let clients off bills?

Yep. Husband is a tattoo artist. He took a deposit from a regular client for a day sit. She unexpectedly lost her father (who she still lived with) and had the sudden expense of having to fend for herself and deal with grieving as well.
He gave her the "non refundable" deposit back without a second thought.

Oh and we did need the money but it wasn't going to leave us starving. She needed it more
Legally op did nothing wrong but morally I think it's mean

The last thing you need is a reputation for a being soft touch, if word gets around that you will not charge for extras, notice etc then you will suddenly find people start taking the piss about paying for anything at all.

She didnt have a problem with it, you dont have a problem with it, your mother needs to keep her beak out!

In this situation it wasn't unreasonable to ask for the money, but it wasn't kind either.
She isnt in business to be kind. I have had times over the years where finding shopping money was difficult, I didnt expect Tesco to be kind and let me have it for nothing.

I am not projecting my own situation I do not say I was on benefits etc so your presumption that I'm referring to my own situation is just that....a presumption.....I work but luckily do not need to pay childcare fees as my children are now adults.....I do however have friends who are single parents who struggle to make ends meet so to be slapped with a bill of £160 for services not used or that I did not know I would indeed incur would be difficult for me let alone a single parent on benefits. I stand by what I said I think OP was unreasonable and greedy and I personally would not have done what she did but each to their own

NoFucks (Constance follower by any chance) :-) likewise. DH does free work occasionally and a financial advisor friend of mine gave free advice and sorted out my dm finances after dsd died. All of them men too for those of you saying 'would a man be expected to do work for free'.

Font I am indeed :-)
I agree, Id definitely say I'm a feminist but all the "oh it's because she's a woman" is really pissing me off. Nothing to do with being a woman and everything to do with being a kind person.

I don't think your contract with the parent is valid.As far as I understand one of the 'tests' for a contract is that each party gives something in return for getting something.' This is not the case here so no contract exists.
If the Funder normally pays you direct, then I think your contract is with them and not the mum.

I don't think yabu, this is your business and you are entitled to be paid for the notice period and shouldn't feel bad about it. The mum hadn't complained as she understood this was part of the contract and I'm sure if it was a huge problem she would have asked to pay in instalments. Do not feel bad about this, I'm surprised how many people think it is unreasonable!

No but a man would face far less criticism for sticking to his contractual terms imo.

We have clients who get funding from various third parties but in every case the contract is directly with the client. In our cases this is because we do not have full control of the relationship with the third party - sometimes the funds are paid directly, other times through the parent but there are always forms or paperwork which the parent is responsible for and there are always things which the parent can do which mean you don't get paid either on time or at all. The contract also has to be with the parent as it covers much more than just payment.

In our case we've historically been payment in advance normally but one of our local colleges funds childcare in arrears. We've previously accepted this for those being funded however it has repeatedly bitten us on the ass so we've decided from now on that we'll be advance only for everyone. We're happy to fill out forms and help with the claim but the parents will need to bridge the gap to pay in advance.