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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think "outshining the bride" is just misogynistic bollocks?

99 replies

MrsWonkasEmergencyChocolate · 02/03/2017 15:55

Just that really. I've seen it on a few threads recently and it's been on my mind how insulting it is, and how often it's said! I'm getting married this year and my bridesmaids have flattering dresses. They are also slimmer than me and don't look haggard from having a small child, along with most of the women under 35 who will be at my wedding. So objectively, whilst I will definitely be the most bridal looking person there, and one of the two happiest, I won't be the most beautiful.

But that's fine, because my future husband will think I look beautiful, and as for the guests, there's no danger of like "well I thought that woman in white with the bouquet was the bride, particularly as I've known her 15 years but then my eye was caught by this beautiful 23 year old with a stunning figure and I decided that perhaps she was the bride and I should take more photos of her and ask her to cut the cake because she's so much shinier."

Could you imagine if men were told not to outshione each other? It's just more pitting women against each other. Surely nobody can "outshine the bride" unless you believe that somebody looking more stereotypically attractive makes somebody more worthy of attention?

OP posts:

Original poster

MrsWonkasEmergencyChocolate · 02/03/2017 18:21

I should have said it was internalised misogyny and if it happened to both men and women then perhaps I would attribute it to capitalism. But my partner, who is male, hasn't been asked about his suit, or offered advice about hold-in underwear or asked whether he was going on a diet, or told "buy the suit a size too small so you have the incentive to get into it" or "ooh make sure the best man doesn't look TOO good- you don't want him to outshine the groom", or "don't get the best man's hair done professionally, because you want to stand out", or "ooh you will be a real prince for a day" or "are you getting eyelashes/nails/tanning done?" DP and I are comparable weight and attractiveness I would say, yet the expectation on me is far far different. It's all well meaning but if you think about it, it's also all about women needing to look a particular way, and to look better than all other women in attendance or be justifiably annoyed at someone trying to steal their thunder. If that happened to grooms and not brides then I would call it internalised misandry, but it doesn't so I'm calling it internalised misogyny. I'm literally talking about weddings and the oft-repeated warnings about upstaging the bride, not denying gym culture or whatever as that's a different topic. Also worthy of discussion but not this topic!

OP posts:

ScarlettFreestone · 02/03/2017 18:22

I've never been to a wedding g where the bride was upstaged. IMO bride's always look wonderful because they are all glowy and happy.

I have been to weddings where MOB wore white, where the MOG wore black, where the gtoom's sisters' behaved dreadfully and where the bride's father behaved well but ruined the bride's day because he'd threatened to behave badly.

In none of these cases did anyone think badly of the bride (or groom).

29redshoes · 02/03/2017 18:32

Off topic, but I don't like the fact that now I have a small child I apparently can't be an attractive wedding guest?!

Otherwise I think I agree with you OP.

Original poster

MrsWonkasEmergencyChocolate · 02/03/2017 18:57

So sorry 29, I didn't mean it like that. I used to have a flatter stomach and sleep at night and now I don't, and I was just comparing myself to all my guests under a certain age who don't have kids and don't have the post-baby belly and eyebags that I have! Personally I looked better before having kids, and I definitely feel like I'm getting married past my point of peak attractiveness!

OP posts:

DailyMaui · 02/03/2017 19:21

At my really good freind's wedding her childhood friend wore a long, floor sweeping white brocade dress and an elaborate up do. We all thought she was bonkers. We still talk about it. What on earth would make you think wearing a wedding dress to your mates wedding would be an ok thing?

I can't remember what people wore to my wedding. I have many really beautiful friends and they would have all looked fantastic no doubt. I was just happy to have them all there. I was certainly not the most gorgeous woman in the room.

StrangeLookingParasite · 02/03/2017 19:46

Modern day (3rd wave) feminism uses misogyny to mean men (synonymous with the patriarchy) to describe any action by any man that any woman has an issue with. Internalised misogyny is when a woman does something a radical (they're the only ones left) feminist dislikes but rather than blaming the woman, they say it is men's fault and the poor woman is a product of her environment. HTH.

What an utter load of rubbish.

Strongmummy · 02/03/2017 19:49

It's not about looking prettier. It's about being considerate to the bride on her day and my deliberately wearing something that'll upstage her. It really isn't misogyny in my view. It's being respectful

Strongmummy · 02/03/2017 19:51

not deliberately

limitedperiodonly · 02/03/2017 20:03

Fair enough BackingVocals Liz Hurley doesn't have terrible legs. But they're more Jonny Wilkinson than Betty Grable. Have a closer look.

She does have fabulous tits though. And her arms look good in that picture at Henry Dent Brocklehurst's wedding.

Now she is a swimwear model, rather than an actor or film producer, she invites people to dissect her body parts even more.

Looking good in a bikini at 52 is how she earns her money. That's what she wants to do.

irregularegular · 02/03/2017 20:05

I think you have a point. It's terribly sexist. No one ever, ever worries about other men "outshining the groom".

quarkinstockcubes · 02/03/2017 20:11

What does upstage actually mean though? Looking more pretty, more glamorous, more bridal than the bride?

I have been to weddings of late and the fashion for the bride seems to be the nude make up/hair down and not brushed look.

JigglyTuff · 02/03/2017 20:13

This is totally outing but I'm assuming that she's not on MN - I spoke to a collegue today who just got married and asked her how her day had gone. She said that the very best thing about the day was the love. The love from all the people there for the B&G and the love they all felt for one another for being there at this special occasion where they were bringing together cultures, continents and languages.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone describe their wedding like that before. And when I saw the photos she was absolutely a beautiful bride but really, what made her and her bridesmaids and everyone at the wedding beautiful was that love and sheer JOY that is in all their faces.

So yeah. That's what I have to say about all this

teresa2003 · 02/03/2017 21:03

I dont think it's deliberate though and to see it as such is just to bash someone who is good looking and you were probably already jealous of them before your wedding. If someone is what is considered beautiful they are going to look even better at a wedding all scrubbed up and dressed very smartly. Are they really supposed to dress down?

ephemeralfairy · 02/03/2017 21:16

A friend of mine's MIL turned up to her wedding in a full length white coat-dress. She wasn't trying to upstage her, she was trying to Prove A Point. It didn't work as most people were very and and in fact we all had a rather good snigger at her. She Had Form, as they say.

ephemeralfairy · 02/03/2017 21:17

But I take your point OP.

DerFlabberghast · 02/03/2017 21:37

I was at a wedding last year where the head bridesmaid (maid of honour?) 100% tried to 'upstage' the bride due to sibling rivalry, she turned up in a very figure-hugging red cocktail dress and we were all very about it, she later, very drunkenly, went apeshit at the reception about how she'd bagged a man and had kids before her sister but if she knew what having kids meant she would never have gone through with it, her poor husband was pretending he'd never laid eyes on her by the end of the night.

Btw bride is very happily married and eagerly anticipating baby 1 later in the year :)

Strongmummy · 03/03/2017 09:07

Upstaging means not wearing something that will deliberately take attention from the bride and make people talk about after the day. E.g. A massive fuck off hat, a full length ball gown with your tits hanging out.

CruCru · 03/03/2017 09:19

Hmm. This is an interesting thread. I wonder whether the idea of "outshining the bride" comes from the Jane Austin era? Younger sisters weren't allowed to enter society until their older sisters had married for example.

Doing / wearing stuff that means that everyone looks at / talks about you instead of the bride is a bit off. To be fair that includes people announcing their pregnancy / engagement at someone else's wedding.

Original poster

MrsWonkasEmergencyChocolate · 03/03/2017 09:27

The Jane Austen era angle is really interesting!

OP posts:

quarkinstockcubes · 03/03/2017 10:11

The thing is though some people wear the above as part of their normal party/occasion repertoire. I think it is very subjective, when does a hat become big enough to be upstaging rather than just a big hat?

Any wedding I've been to people generally pass comments on what the guests are wearing eg "Oh wasn't Patricia's outfit beautiful/Tammy's dress was horrendous etc so I don't think anyone goes to a wedding and has only eyes on the bride anyway.

I do agree entirely about the upstaging being a Victorian thing. Anyone who wants to "have all eyes on me" is a bit attention seeking and precious IMO anyway, so is likely to feel that at least one person has tried to upstaged her.

TheOnlyLivingBoyinNewCork · 03/03/2017 10:17

It sounds like we are supposed to go to weddings and stare at the bride all day and not notice anything or anyone else because she's so amazing?

It's a bit weird and self absorbed.

PuntCuffin · 03/03/2017 10:25

The only person who said anything to me about outshining was a lady in a bridal shop. I said my groom would be in his military uniform. At which point, she informed me I would need to choose a very simple dress so that I didn't outshine the groom.

Much laughing later, I realised she wasn't joking. I didn't choose my dress from her shop and I didn't choose a simple dress either.

n0ne · 03/03/2017 11:03

My DB and his DP are really into steam punk, goth, Victoriana etc and when I was getting married they asked (jokingly) if I minded them wearing full-on Victorian outfits. I was thrilled! My own wedding dress was pretty simple but I'm not one for lots of fuss. A few people were a bit at DB in his top hat and tails and DSil in a cream Victorian dress and hat, but I think they looked fab. The photographer took nearly as many pictures of them as they did of me and DH!

shovetheholly · 03/03/2017 11:03

" I wonder whether the idea of "outshining the bride" comes from the Jane Austin era? Younger sisters weren't allowed to enter society until their older sisters had married for example."

Interesting theory, but not borne out by the evidence - most weddings of that era were simple, private affairs and most wedding dresses were simply smart dresses that would be worn over and over again. (The cost of textiles was very high, in part due to war). Additionally, much Regency culture emphasized the value of a kind of 'artless simplicity' in women, over and above showiness (court wear was an exception). I don't know when the idea of outshining the bride began, but it implies a very different culture of weddings! - I suspect it may be of a more recent origin.

Being "out" is a slightly different thing - it means a girl is 'on the market'. The problem for Mrs Bennett is less competition between the daughters (it's only the foolish and immature Lydia who sees it this way) than one of organisation - getting a suitable match for a daughter is assumed to involve a lot of work (and money) so having so many daughters within such a narrow age range is a financial and practical problem.

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