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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think "outshining the bride" is just misogynistic bollocks?

99 replies

MrsWonkasEmergencyChocolate · 02/03/2017 15:55

Just that really. I've seen it on a few threads recently and it's been on my mind how insulting it is, and how often it's said! I'm getting married this year and my bridesmaids have flattering dresses. They are also slimmer than me and don't look haggard from having a small child, along with most of the women under 35 who will be at my wedding. So objectively, whilst I will definitely be the most bridal looking person there, and one of the two happiest, I won't be the most beautiful.

But that's fine, because my future husband will think I look beautiful, and as for the guests, there's no danger of like "well I thought that woman in white with the bouquet was the bride, particularly as I've known her 15 years but then my eye was caught by this beautiful 23 year old with a stunning figure and I decided that perhaps she was the bride and I should take more photos of her and ask her to cut the cake because she's so much shinier."

Could you imagine if men were told not to outshione each other? It's just more pitting women against each other. Surely nobody can "outshine the bride" unless you believe that somebody looking more stereotypically attractive makes somebody more worthy of attention?

OP posts:

minipie · 02/03/2017 16:30

Or this one from Liz Hurley some years back

wettunwindee · 02/03/2017 16:31

another way of society pitting women against each other

I think you're being disingenuous and clearly understand the misleading title.

Society sounds inclusive ie. you're looking to blame men and the patriarchy when in reality, it's women on women. You can pin this one on the blokes however hard you delve into internalised patriarchies...

Soubriquet · 02/03/2017 16:31

Hah my mum was in black too

Well "navy blue" according to her but it was so dark it may aswell have been black. Can you tell she wasn't thrilled I was getting married?

Patienceisvirtuous · 02/03/2017 16:35

It's all a bit silly isn't it?

I didn't give a fig about who was wearing what at my wedding, I just wanted to marry DH, and have a lovely day. Bollocks to what everyone's wearing :/

Frillyhorseyknickers · 02/03/2017 16:35

My MIL wore a black log velvet dress coat at our (Summer) wedding. Many of the guests invested time in speculating why the fuck the mother of the groom would do this, especially as we got on very well (and I had spent hours if not days shopping with her, eventually settling on a champagne coloured two piece).

I didn't mind, she looked like a complete cunt and didn't spoil my day - she did almost completely do herself out of the wedding album though, only so many funeral esque photos I wanted featuring in our happy memories.

Doyouwantabrew · 02/03/2017 16:36

Omg your sil wore her wedding dress thats insane!

op but you can't outshone the bride as she's the bride. Everyone will be looking st you and your dh.

Anyone strutting about and trying to make it about them will look a dick head.

Catzpyjamas · 02/03/2017 16:36

Soubriquet, do you have a brother?

Jaysis · 02/03/2017 16:36

Ok fair enough to want to be the most radiant and happy person there (and most brides genuinely are), but to want to be the prettiest or the best looking? That's a bit precious and not something a bride can control, nor should she.

I've a taller, younger, thinner, better looking sister. She's going to be gorgeous in whatever she's wearing at my wedding. I'll still be the bride and the main woman on the day.

Soubriquet · 02/03/2017 16:37

I do but he's only 4!

Doyouwantabrew · 02/03/2017 16:37

frilly how odd if you got on well. Did she mean to be nasty or was it a massive mistake without malice?

shovetheholly · 02/03/2017 16:38

"You can pin this one on the blokes however hard you delve into internalised patriarchies..."

You have misunderstood the way internalisation works if you think it's something chosen!! I do agree, however, that once we become aware of it as a mechanism, there's a kind of obligation to stop buying into the same behaviour of comparing and rating women on their attractiveness.

I agree, OP, it's competitive, old-fashioned nonsense.

Original poster

MrsWonkasEmergencyChocolate · 02/03/2017 16:38

Wettun- nope, genuinely wanted a word for "an example of where women are subject to societal pressures that men aren't, just because they are women" and came up with misogynistic, but I'm fairly new to feminism so if there is a better word that's fine. I don't think it's men expecting it of women at all, I think it's something some women uphold as a stream of thought because society says women are more valuable when they are beautiful.

OP posts:

Doyouwantabrew · 02/03/2017 16:40

Oh my word Liz Hurley looks desperate for attention.

wetcardboard · 02/03/2017 16:42

It's all a bit sill really.

As an aside, I know of one case where a male guest outshone the groom. One of my friends wore a suit to a wedding, but the groom and everyone else was dressed casually. Even though the groom said it didn't matter, my friend said he felt supremely uncomfortable and overdressed, and that a few people made comments to him about his outfit.

user1483981877 · 02/03/2017 16:45

Hang on though, so Liz wearing that dress was taking all the attention away? Sorry I couldn't agree with that less. Liz chose a dress, and that was what she was wearing, but even if there was intent to upstage anyone, it only becomes so in the eyes of those who choose to buy into the same crap. Why not just let her wear that massively revealing dress if that's what she wants. The minute we all start bitching about how she is upstaging then the cycle continues.

VestalVirgin · 02/03/2017 16:48

I think you are right to consider this misogyny. At the heart of it, it is women competing for male attention. Three guesses as to just why having male attention is so vital for women that there is fighting about it.

Well, I would consider it bad manners to wear a more expensive-looking/bridely dress and more jewellery than the bride, if done to the extent that there is actually a danger for strangers getting confused about who is the bride.
Men are expected to not dress better than their male boss, too - pretty sure it is frowned upon to wear a suit and tie when the boss doesn't.
To some extent, clothes are used to signal who is how important, and making yourself more important than you are is a fauxpas.

However, there's not much a woman can do about being more stereotypically attractive than the bride. Wear a potato sack? Though some women would still look lovely, so perhaps a burqa.

minipie · 02/03/2017 16:49

My problem with it user is that by dressing like that Liz drew a whole load of paparazzi and media attention to the wedding which the bride and groom didn't necessarily want. Basically she turned it into a career promotion opportunity for herself, at the expense of the bride & groom's privacy. Which is Not On.

If I thought she wore that dress simply because she thought it looked nice, that would be different. But given the dress, and the way she rose to fame in the first place, I think she wore it wanting media attention.

VestalVirgin · 02/03/2017 16:52

Hang on though, so Liz wearing that dress was taking all the attention away? Sorry I couldn't agree with that less.

Yeah. That's a pretty plain dress, and not white. I mean, I wouldn't wear it to a wedding because I prefer dresses that don't show my underpants, but I don't think it would take anyone's attention away - unless they wanted to ogle her legs, but I would not invite people who would do that to a wedding.

TheOnlyLivingBoyinNewCork · 02/03/2017 16:53

My problem with it user is that by dressing like that Liz drew a whole load of paparazzi and media attention to the wedding which the bride and groom didn't necessarily want

The paps were there because it was Liz Hurley, not because of what she was wearing. They were obviously there before they knew what she was wearing. If you don't want any media attention, you don't invite Liz Hurley to your wedding.

And if your cousins missus turned up in La Hurleys dress, you wouldn't feel outshined, would you? I wouldn't, I'd just be wondering why she was flashing her kecks at everyone!

user1483981877 · 02/03/2017 16:55

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I guess I mean does it matter what her motives were, or the fact that she likes flashing the flesh. But we are still sat here, in 2017, saying 'look at the state of her.'

VestalVirgin · 02/03/2017 16:56

My problem with it user is that by dressing like that Liz drew a whole load of paparazzi and media attention to the wedding which the bride and groom didn't necessarily want.

I dunno, that sort of thing is probably a byproduct of inviting Liz Hurley to your wedding in any case, isn't it?

I mean, if she had worn something less scandalous, the paparazzi would probably have taken photos to complain on how ugly her dress is.

(I really don't seek it out, but GMX often has those image galleries where they complain about the way celebrities dress. There's "Too revealing, too revealing, too revealing, too extravagant, too extravagant, oh, how can Ms Rowling wear a normal flower pattern dress to such a glamorous event! How horrible!" There is no way to dress that doesn't get criticism if you are in the public eye.)

user1483981877 · 02/03/2017 16:58

'And if your cousins missus turned up in La Hurleys dress, you wouldn't feel outshined, would you? I wouldn't, I'd just be wondering why she was flashing her kecks at everyone!' Yep I agree with this. Let her show her pants if she wants, why waste energy worrying about her upstaging anyone.

minipie · 02/03/2017 17:00

Well it's the underpants flashing that's the point isn't it Vestal? Other than that I agree the dress is plain. But it's designed to show off her pants?!

Only yes I'm sure there were a few paps there anyway, but if she'd worn a less knicker flashing dress I doubt it would have made the papers. Bride & groom may have reckoned there would be some media attention as a result of inviting her but not that she would encourage it and give them something juicy to publish.

I wouldn't feel outshined (outshone?) but I would feel rather annoyed at someone using our wedding as a self promotion opportunity rather than considering the impact on our day.

I'd be equally dismayed by the way if I invited a male celeb and he turned up wearing something slashed across the buttocks or whatever. It's not a female thing.

ChortledTheLion · 02/03/2017 17:03

Some people are narcissistic twats, who went to be the centre of attention no matter what the occasion. Some are men, some are women.

Frillyhorseyknickers · 02/03/2017 17:03

Doyouwantabrew I honestly have no idea why she did it - she thought she looked wonderful and I've never brought it up as an issue, although she is fucking weird most of the time.

There is a photo of my mum in beautiful vivid bright summery outfit, next to my MIL wearing black shoes, black opaque tights, black dress, black velvet jacket and black and red hat. She looked a complete plonker.

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