Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6

Original poster

Girls and unisex or girls and boys football team

135 replies

r0tringLover · 28/02/2017 16:59

I'm in a position of influence in a school and recently needed to debate with parents whether there should be continue to be a boy-only football team.

I guess the sport is irrelevant except that football is a male-dominated sport, especially in schools.

We have several girls teams which compete against other girls teams. The rules in the local league don't actually appear to exclude girls from the boys team but are clear that boys cannot play for the girls teams. I feel that this is about following the spirit of the law as opposed to the letter. Not a single team we compete with has a girl playing with the boys. I'm sure a large part of this is due to the equally good girls league with plenty of fixtures and camaraderie.

Many parents wanted the girls to be classed a closed group whereas the boys as a free-for-all Perhaps unsurprisingly, they were the same parents who will defend the need for girls to have spaces reserved for them.

Was I being unreasonable defending the need for boys to have space free from girls and any politics involved should girls be picked over boys? I'm rarely unsure about my opinions (for better or worse) but on this occasion I am doubting myself.

OP posts:

RB68 · 28/02/2017 19:09

if the mixed team is on ability only the boys needing their own team due to higher standards argument is flawed

Original poster

r0tringLover · 28/02/2017 19:15

I don't know whether it's simplest to pander to their sexism. did you note in the OP "Not a single team we compete with has a girl playing with the boys." go boys-only or force them into playing properly in mixed teams.

Nothing I said was supposed to go unnoticed. I was talking about the fact that the league is split into boy and girl teams not girl and mixed with it being sexism keeping girls out of the boys.

What's the important thing: winning the cup or training the DC to become decent sportspeople?

There's the third factor I've mentioned several times which is giving the boys an arena where they can be boys and (important in upper KS2), discuss being boys. Embarrassing erections, fancying a girl, a girl who fancies one of them... In a very similar way to girls benefiting from a boy-free zone to talk to each other about bras, periods etc.

sibys

No, as it stands, there is a de facto boy team(s) and girl team(s). If our boy team were to become mixed then coaches would need to take copies of the rules along with them and probably brief the ref ahead of the game. This is more about whether I challenge the status quo at the behest of certain parents or continue the way the leagues and school have been and incidentally, the way which makes sense to me.

You're still saying that there;s a girls team and I'm banning girls from the mixed team therefore disregarding any right of boys to have a single-sex team. That is grossly unfair and I still haven't seen a coherent reason for it other than girls aren't good enough for the A team. This ignores boys who make neither the A team of B (F only) team.

OP posts:

Original poster

r0tringLover · 28/02/2017 19:21

budgiegirl

Yes, girls by year 3-4 tend to be behind the boys if only in physicality and not in understanding the game so I guess would be called less talented.

We have one exceptional girl with her fees paid by a well known team. The upper 6th team would love her onside. There are a couple of girls who would be starting players for the KS2 A team. That's current;y the extent of it.

OP posts:

sibys1 · 28/02/2017 19:25

Well, what are the rules for the league that the 'boys team' plays in? I presume that is must be a mixed league or we wouldn't be having this conversation, unless the parents are asking you to lobby against the league to get them to change their rules?

If the Rules say it's a mixed league, then you'd hope the refs would know that, but no harm in taking a copy of the rules if you think it's a genuine issue.

Original poster

r0tringLover · 28/02/2017 19:34

The league is mixed according to the rules. I won't quote them as it would be too clear who I am. In the last 2 decades, it has been boys only as the same set of rules which govern the equivalent girls' teams have been taken to see there are 2 distinct, single sex teams.

I suspect we would need a copy of the rules but, as I thought I'd made clear, I'm against a mixed team. If I felt contrary then I could easily use the rules to support my decision.

OP posts:

BoneyBackJefferson · 28/02/2017 19:36

instead of pressing for a change in the current system why don't they start there own mixed team?

Allthebestnamesareused · 28/02/2017 19:40

There are 2 girls playing in "boys" teams in our local U15s A league. They are just as high a standard as the boys and in fact as their hair is cut short sometimes the boys don't even realise they have played against a girl until afterwards.

Boys don't care if girls are playing with them if they are good enough!

I see the need for girls teams to encourage girls into sport but generally those girls who go on to play at a higher level will have played in the boys team.

budgiegirl · 28/02/2017 19:52

We have one exceptional girl with her fees paid by a well known team. The upper 6th team would love her onside. There are a couple of girls who would be starting players for the KS2 A team

While I can see your point that you want to be fair to the boys, do you not feel that you are being unfair to these girls by not allowing them to play for the 'boys' team? You're effectively holding them back because they cannot play at the level their talent dictates. It's exactly for this reason that the FA has decided there should be mixed teams in football until the age of 16.

budgiegirl · 28/02/2017 19:54

Sorry, that should say mixed teams until 18

Bambambini · 28/02/2017 19:56

Mmm, i think ideally it would be fair enough to have seperate sex teams once they get older and physically start to mature. Also might be easier to encourage girls to take up the sport in an all girls team.

Only priblem is if a girl wants to play but there is nobteam for her or she is way advanced for most girls teams - maybe there could be a little leeway.

I imagine by law boys and girls who identify as the opposite sex will be allowed to play for the team they feel they match.

titchy · 28/02/2017 19:56

Why do the needs of girls outweigh those of boys?

They don't. This about trying to address a current inequality. If boys and girls participated equally then everyone would be happy with a mixed A team and B team. But girls don't participate anywhere near the levels of boys hence the need for a single sex team.

Is there really enough demand for a third team?

oblada · 28/02/2017 19:57

interesting discussion and one where actually the obvious answer doesn't seem right after reflection... Yes my first reaction is that it should be the same on both sides, boys only and girls only. But some pp have made very good points as to why it shouldn't be that and indeed isn't like that in many places. It's one of those times where you need to think beyond the basic appearance of equality and look for true fairness overall. It does arguably requires a bit more thinking because the first reaction is understandably 'same on each side' and that's only natural.

I'd back up the mixed team on ability + girls team to help girls into the sport. Positive discrimination can be a very good thing indeed and without it we would still be very backward indeed.
Boys can be boys with boys in lots of other forums and arena, they do not need that specifically in the football team...

titchy · 28/02/2017 20:00

Not to my mind. It's telling boys that they're less important than girls as well as telling the girls to throw their hand up in the air and say 'we're a bit shit and need special measures'.

FFS no it's not It's saying we recognise girls don't participate as much as they'd like in this sport and we'd really like to address that.

Same as having a boys only cooking club running alongside a mixed cooking club. It's just recognising there's an inequality and WANTING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

I'm guessing you have boys?

Bambambini · 28/02/2017 20:05

I loved football as a girl in the 70/80s. There were no girls football teams that i knew of or i would have joined instead of being the only girl in our street playing with the boys up to about 14 yrs old. Had to take-up netball instead. I think if a girl is as good as the boys and there is no girls team if her ability - then would be nice if she could play with the boys.

oblada · 28/02/2017 20:05

Well said titchy it is about recognising a problem and addressing it. Positive discrimination which, if done properly, is a very good thing indeed.

BoneyBackJefferson · 28/02/2017 20:08

titchy

Where does the boy that has lost his place on the team go?

BoneyBackJefferson · 28/02/2017 20:12

oblada

Positive discrimination which, if done properly, is a very good thing indeed.

Only if your the one that is the benefactor of the positive discrimination.

EduCated · 28/02/2017 20:12

Agree with Oblada.

Also, if they need space to talk bras and erections, perhaps a football team isn't the answer... I completely agree there is merit to boys having access to a boys only space, but I don't think that needs to be the football team. Surely the football should come first?

sibys1 · 28/02/2017 20:13

BoneyBackJefferson - to set up a boys-only league. Numbers might be a problem though.

BoneyBackJefferson · 28/02/2017 20:15

sibys1

So a primary school pupil should set up his own league?

UnbornMortificado · 28/02/2017 20:16

My DD1 plays for three teams. She got scouted at a mixed team to play for the new girls team.

She had years of mixed teams and is well ahead of the other girls. It's more practice/experience then amazing talent iyswim.

bunnylove99 · 28/02/2017 20:19

Yanbu OP. Have one all-boys team and an all-girls team. Only fair way. If you have any girls who are such great footballers they will be picked up by other non-school/pro-youth girls teams anyway, they won't only be playing for their primary . It's not fair to deny boys a place on their primary football team to have their space given to a girl who can compete for the girls team instead.

worridmum · 28/02/2017 20:20

if its run by school would it be fair for some of the girls that manage to get into the mixed team, but also play for the girl only team so in effect double dipping?

Can you imagine the outrage on here if it was a girl only thing being abolished (for example a art club) and being told they need to deal with having boys there?

do women need safe spaces in something like art where they dominate most art clubs?

oblada · 28/02/2017 20:22

Boney - no, positive discrimination benefits society which is why it has been implemented at various times and in various ways by governments. Done properly it is even necessary.
Just look at it this way: you will have unfairness anyway but do you think it is better for a very able girl to not be able to achieve her potential because the girls only team is limited or for a mediocre boy to have to give his place to a girl? One unfairness is based on talent, the other on sex. I know which one I prefer to 'fight' but of course everyone can have a different view on this.

worridmum · 28/02/2017 20:22

ok do you not remeber the outrage when men were getting more money in the form of scholarships to go into primary teaching? (how its not considered the same as the scholarships for girls into science i dont know)

was called sexist etc even though there is a real need for male primary teachers

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6