To Discipline Colleague?

[Hesdeadjim]

Just need a reaction check really! I have generalized anxiety disorder so I'm not always confident my reactions to things are proportionate. When the below happened I was raging and I want to formally discipline, but I don't know if that's a bit much?

Some details changed to protect identities.

Yesterday one of my direct reports vanished from the office. No pre-arranged holiday, no meetings or anything in my calendar.

At 14:50ish (he vanished at 12) I got a text message saying in these words "By the way, I'm at a doctors appointment if you were wondering why I'm not at my desk"....

Is it just me or is he taking the absolute piss here?

Dr's appointment is fine as long as you let managers know in advance, but he didn't.

Unauthorized absence policy here:

"Any absence from the office that is not communicated properly is unauthorized absence and will be treated as a breach of contract."

That's pretty crystal cut isn't it?

My problem is, because it was a hospital appointment I don't know where I stand from a HR perspective. It wasn't an emergency and had been pre-arranged.

WIBU to take it through formal disciplinary or am I over reacting? Is this standard behavior or do I need to nip this in the bud?

peggyundercrackers whilst I understand your sentiments, I do think that's a bit harsh on OP. MN is an outlet for people to get advice before steam rolling ahead with a decision that they are struggling with. Whilst I agree that maybe this area is sensitive and throws up some concerns, the OP has openly admitted she lacks confidence in her role.

Unless he has previous for this - you need to give him a warning and its up to you if its informal or formal it is not acceptable for something that is advance booked to just disappear. It has a knock on on everyone in the office and is disrespectful to both you and his colleagues.

Straight in the office when he returns and full dressing down, informal for now would be my gut but I would want to see him on best behaviour going forward.

You poor think. Anxiety is a bugger and really question yourself. lougle has it though, take the emotion out of this. Going AWOL a safety issue, if there was a fire, and he is thought to be still in the building then fire crews are going to go in and search, putting themselves in danger for no reason. And that's not on.

It doesn't sound like he's disrespecting your management over this, more just young and dopey and not getting the consequences . He needs it spelling out and a first informal warning following your own hr procedures.

We had someone exactly like this when I was temping, a fellow temp, we had a fire drill and he correctly assumed we'd be stood around for a while before they let us in so he fucked off to the shops. In the meantime fire wardens were going frantic trying to find him.

I think he got a bollocking and we all had a very thorough explanation of What To Do If You Go Offsite at the next team meeting. I now work in an office where most people except senior managers are out in the community at least 50% of the time, and we operate a strict booking in and out system even though no one will question WHY you want to go out. As management say we need to know to start looking for you if you are dead in a ditch somewhere.

Does your organisation have a buddy system - ie mentoring for junior managers by senior? If not I would find a senior mgr who you get on with and butter them up to help out with these sorts of situations, I think it is just a lack of confidence on your part, you knew instinctively that it was beyond the pale you just need the courage of your convictions

rightsofwomen my manager is fully aware of the GAD, I even have a designated space I can go to if I need a moment, a number I can call for meditation/ breathing/ calming if needed and an employee assistance program if I'm particularly bad.

In my logical head, I know I could go to her with this and it would be fine, but in my anxiety head (the one I'm wearing right now) she'll discover I'm totally incompetent and my career will be stunted. She understands the anxiety is essentially a direct result of burn out, pretty much caused by the nature of the job I'm in.

You have to understand, in the last 6 months I've gone from 3 reports to 16, having only just been put in a position of management for the first time a month before that. It's a whole different ball game I'm not yet prepped for. I'm having HR and management training but that doesn't help when something crops up like this. Just under 4 years ago I was graduating. Can you imagine how a change like that affects an anxiety sufferer?

FYI, none of this happened by chance. I'm bloody good at my job and worked my backside off to get where I am and grow my team from the ground up. Unfortunately, climbing the ranks involves managing other people which is something I haven't done before and I'm having to learn fast. Give me a break, I'm trying.

I think people are being pretty horrible to the OP here. If everyone went directly to where they SHOULD get advice rather than coming onto Mumsnet, the place would be empty and every GP surgery, A&E department, police station, Citizens Advice Bureau and charity shop (for the World Book Day costumes!) in the country would be rammed.

As others have said, it totally depends on how things work in your office, what the consequences of him forgetting to book the time off etc are.

Good luck OP. Having 16 direct reports is no fun. Been there done that, and I had a lot more management experience under my belt.

You've been landed with 16 line reports which is a fucktonne of responsibility. You are allowed to feel frazzled and ask for advice. IMO he's taking the piss and needs a written warning.

I know what the medical appointment was for, it's something I've given him time off for without question once every couple of weeks for the last 3 months.

Is it for blood tests? If it has happened every two weeks for the last 3 months he may have thought that you knew...

OP do you have a designated HR partner or similar? They're the ideal person to bounce this sort of thing off, that's what they're there for, and they won't consider you incompetent at all. The incompetent managers are the ones who think they know it all, steamroll in and then cause a bigger mess for HR to sort out afterwards.

And FWIW I've been a manager for years but if I'm fairly new to somewhere I'll still chat things over with my boss or a peer, to check that my initial thoughts are in line with that particular department's policy or to make sure there's no angle I've missed, or that they aren't aware of something in the background that might make a certain approach inappropriate.

Just had a cup of tea and a catch up with my manager, proceeding with a firm but informal chat.

I won't apologise for asking for a consensus from the internet. Because of the more helpful responses here, I didn't go into that meeting with my manager anxious and angry, I went in with a level head and explained what happened, then laid out a few options we could take and asked her which she thought was best. Job done. No drama. The alternative would have been going in angry and suggesting sacking him, which would have made me look completely mental.

So thanks to everyone who helped and to everyone telling an anxiety sufferer how shit at her job she is: I sincerely hope you never have to go through anxiety, but if you ever do, I hope people are kind.

just go and ask your manager...work out a couple of options, and what you think of them, that you could use for your International Man of Mystery

chat and tut (already done, and seemingly ineffective)
chat and note on his file (maybe the best otion)
note/informal warning (maybe OTT in your view, but would she think the same)

run it all past her and see what she thinks fits best...you have come up with several solutions, pros and cons, and are looking for any other input/options from her that might suit better.

oh totally cross posted ! :o

I'd discipline him unless he honestly thought that you knew where he was seeing as you have been giving him time off for regular appointments.

The alternative would have been going in angry and suggesting sacking him, which would have made me look completely mental.

It goes without saying but yes that would be very OTT

PageStillNotFound404 sadly our HR partner (ironically) left before Christmas with no warning so we've been without one since then!

Thank you for that, I've always struggled with asking for help so it helps to know it's normal not to have all the answers, even with experienced managers.

Roomster101 No not blood tests. Although this appointment was related to his condition, it wasnt the same as his other appointments, it was with a different department. His appointments aren't regular so he usually lets me know verbally when he's going to be at one which is why this was weird.

Anyway, sorted now, Thanks everyone :)

16 people reporting to you is a lot and I think you shouldn't be hard on yourself. The fact you have come on here to clear your head before acting is actually not a bad thing, its a coping strategy and safer than going to a RL friend or another collegue as none of us know you so can just look at the dilemma and respond as we think we would in the same situation. I hope you feel you can now take the correct action. Good Luck Op, to admit your failings is actually a strength, those that claim to be faultless are often the one who come unstuck.

peggy please wind your neck in. If you don't want to support, fine, the OP is not your manager so you don't need to worry, but stop lambasting someone has highlighted their anxiety condition.

OP, the more I have read this thread, the more I feel you have already shown due consideration, leniency and trust to this employee. Sometimes the saying goes "if you give an inch, they take a mile". Now is the time to enact policy, but in a way that is commensurate with their behaviour. It tends to start with "first verbal warning" which means you just have an informal meeting and highlight how much notice they must give for absence, and if you have a process they can follow, point them towards that.

Highlight that the next time, a note will go on their file, and the time after that it will be deemed extremely serious, possibly expending in your company policy, final warning before dismissal.

This gives them ample opportunity to express concerns and say if they are worried about taking time off for medical appointments.

Itsnotwhatitseems thank you :)

Depending on

Well done OP - for your rapid progression and promotion, for taking on the challenges head first, for asking advice and for understanding and dealing with your anxiety.

You seem like an excellent manager to me already - and as you get older and wiser I'm sure your anxiety will abate (speaking as someone who's been there...)
Have some

Oh it's absolutely normal not to have all the answers! Policies change, people encounter situations they've never come across before, our own confidence can wax and wane depending on what else is going on, etc etc. Management can be a lonely job at times and having a network of peers or trusted seniors with whom you can talk over the thornier problems, or just let off steam occasionally about the inevitable competent but really frustrating (for whatever reason) team member is invaluable.

If he is new to the Company. Give him the procedures manual and ask him to familiarise himself with the policies. Specifically tell him from this point forward, you, as his Manager, require notice in writing and verbal form before he leaves the premises. If he doesn't follow procedure, you will have to start disiplinary action. Be assertive but stay calm.
I have read how some people find Adult Colouring books helpful for anxiety and I find mindfulness good to 'ground' me.

I think people are being very unreasonable about you asking advice. As you said you have changed details. I ask advice about loads of things on here. What's so wrong about asking "strangers on the Internet"? It's not asking your mates down the pub!

Plus, you've been on the internet since 9.30. How do you deal with that if you catch an employee? (I'm off today by the way 😊).