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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To Discipline Colleague?

117 replies

Hesdeadjim · 28/02/2017 09:29

Just need a reaction check really! I have generalized anxiety disorder so I'm not always confident my reactions to things are proportionate. When the below happened I was raging and I want to formally discipline, but I don't know if that's a bit much?

Some details changed to protect identities.

Yesterday one of my direct reports vanished from the office. No pre-arranged holiday, no meetings or anything in my calendar.

At 14:50ish (he vanished at 12) I got a text message saying in these words "By the way, I'm at a doctors appointment if you were wondering why I'm not at my desk"....

Is it just me or is he taking the absolute piss here?

Dr's appointment is fine as long as you let managers know in advance, but he didn't.

Unauthorized absence policy here:

"Any absence from the office that is not communicated properly is unauthorized absence and will be treated as a breach of contract."

That's pretty crystal cut isn't it?

My problem is, because it was a hospital appointment I don't know where I stand from a HR perspective. It wasn't an emergency and had been pre-arranged.

WIBU to take it through formal disciplinary or am I over reacting? Is this standard behavior or do I need to nip this in the bud?

OP posts:
harderandharder2breathe · 28/02/2017 10:09

I do agree with PP who said it's unprofessional to ask strangers online how to manage your staff. Surely there's other managers in your company that you can discuss it with? If you're struggling then your manager needs to know.

unfortunateevents · 28/02/2017 10:09

Yes, it is a disciplinary matter. He had done it before, you've had the informal chat which obviously hasn't worked. Time to formalise matters. You manage a large team and it will create a bad atmosphere among other colleagues if one person is seen to be flouting the rules with no consequences. To whoever said he may have realised last-minute about the appointment, that still doesn't justify leaving the office without telling anyone or taking nearly THREE hours to send you a casual text about it. It's not clear if he returned to the office at all yesterday? Is he young/in his first job?

Naughty1205 · 28/02/2017 10:10

This wouldn't happen where I work, there'd be major trouble and a written warning. I don't think you are over reacting at all!

LaurieMarlow · 28/02/2017 10:11

You don't seem very confident in your role and your response seems very rigid and harsh.

Discuss your concerns with a more senior colleague. Not strangers on the internet.

Talk to him and find out what the issue was. He may have simply forgotten, or it may have been an embarrassing problem that cropped up unexpectedly. Understand the full picture before you start putting in the boot.

IamFriedSpam · 28/02/2017 10:11

treaclesoda In contrast I've worked places where absences are pretty casual, you can leave for a few hours without telling anyone and you're trusted to catch up on work afterwards. Obviously the type of work we did was almost entirely independent so if someone was gone no one else was affected, we also were able to work from home quite often. I would certainly not go into a new job though and expect those lax rules to apply elsewhere.

lougle · 28/02/2017 10:11

The issue here is that he isn't showing due regard for procedure and your authority? But because you feel insecure in your management you are thinking of it as a reflection of your lack of substance as a manager rather than his lack of ability to follow procedure.

I think you need to lose the emotional element from this and view it as a problem to be solved: you have an employee who hasn't grasped that these procedures must be followed.

I think that today, you need to give him a verbal warning that procedure must be followed, with a clear explanation of why these rules exist, and a warning of next steps if he fails to follow procedure in future. Then you can follow that up by emailing him a copy of the procedure, reminding him of your chat. You can put a note in his file to say you gave a verbal warning on this date.

Original poster
Hesdeadjim · 28/02/2017 10:12

unfortunateevents he didn't return and yes, he's straight out of uni. Having said that, so was I 3 years ago!

OP posts:
andontothenext · 28/02/2017 10:12

I know!! You're not incompetent!!

unfortunateevents · 28/02/2017 10:12

I certainly wouldn't be disciplined for going to a hospital appointment especially if it had been entered into the system as a day off - neither would he if he had requested the time off, rather than just disappearing and then texting three hours later! The pre-booked leave was a previous occasion, although even then he gave less than two hours notice and didn't wait to see if the request was approved!

MiniCooperLover · 28/02/2017 10:12

I think I would have a chat and follow up with an email, cc'd to your manager, to let him know that he needs to be a little more responsible when booking time off etc, leave the ball in his court but make it clear he's had 2 incidents but a third will make it a serious issue. Or he's going to think you're a pushover and will continue.

Original poster
Hesdeadjim · 28/02/2017 10:13

LaurieMarlow I'm not confident at all in my role, well spotted.

OP posts:
maddiemookins16mum · 28/02/2017 10:13

I'd never do it, it's unprofessional to just leave work. I'd also be mortified if my Manager was asking randim strangers on the internet! Surely you need to speak to HR informally at this point.

HermioneJeanGranger · 28/02/2017 10:14

How do you "forget" to tell someone you're going to the Doctors? I think being embarrassed is a pretty poor reason to just leave work without mentioning it to anyone first - most managers just need to know you're off the premises and why (doctors, dentist, opticians, sick child, whatever) - they're not interested in the ins and outs of your health!

Original poster
Hesdeadjim · 28/02/2017 10:15

lougle it's EXACTLY that. I feel like I haven't given him any reason to respect my authority, so he doesn't feel the need to :(

OP posts:
SansComic · 28/02/2017 10:17

It depends on the type of office and the industry you're in as well as how senior he is.

In my previous job I wouldn't have had to consult anyone re. an afternoon away from my desk as we often needed to work 'out and about'. Also, as long as targets were being met and we weren't taking the piss, it didn't matter. We were all at a fairly senior level and thereofre were expected to act and be treated as such and not have t put our hand up and ask to be excused for x, y z.

A formal disciplinary seems fairly OTT. I think it's time for you to show you can manage your staff and a quick chat at the coffee machine should do it. Explain you need to be asked / kept in the loop.

Of course, if he's underperforming and you'd rather he were replaced then make it into either a kick up the arse or the first step toward this.'

It's slightly worrying you feel the need to ask for advice about this though when you're managing "a large team" Hmm

senua · 28/02/2017 10:19

I know what the medical appointment was for, it's something I've given him time off for without question once every couple of weeks for the last 3 months.

Have you seen medical evidence or are you going on his word? I think you need to check your HR policy on sickness as well as absence before you speak to him.

ShowMeYourWellies · 28/02/2017 10:20

Informal discussion. It is an over the top response to go straight to a disciplinary procedure

Jaxhog · 28/02/2017 10:23

Rightsofwomen What's wrong with asking for advice?

I'd go with a chat and a file note. And a reminder that there is a certain process in place that he must follow. Tell him that next time will be a formal disciplinary.

rightsofwomen · 28/02/2017 10:30

jax
There's nothing wrong with asking for advice, but it wouldn't fill be confidence about my manager's ability if I found he was asking the internet how to manage me. It would be more appropriate for him to ask his own manager. The OP has a condition which means she is not able to manage effectively and I think her own manager should know about that - if it's a genuine condition (and I have no reason to think otherwise) then things should be put in place. It's only fair to the staff she manages.

GeorgeTheHamster · 28/02/2017 10:30

He's out of line and he's done it twice. There needs to be something in his personnel file, whether it is a written warning or note. You're not overreacting.

rightsofwomen · 28/02/2017 10:30

[overuse of the word manage!]

Original poster
Hesdeadjim · 28/02/2017 10:31

SansComic more than slightly worrying. 16 entry level direct reports. When I got the promotion i had 3 and was managing fine, but I'm in an industry that grows like a weed and because I train up new starters well (I love a process), my team has grown from 3 to 16 in 6 months.

OP posts:
peggyundercrackers · 28/02/2017 10:34

WHY are you asking strangers about managing your staff? id be fucking furious if my line manager was on the internet asking strangers about discipline.

I would also be furious if I worked in HR and thought I had a LM who couldn't do their job and was asking strangers on the internet - sorry but you would be out the door because you cant do your job.

Itsnotwhatitseems · 28/02/2017 10:35

Do you think your employee is aware you are lacking confidence and taking advantage of you. I remember when I was at school there were some teachers you knew you could get away with murder, I think a talk about the seriousness of this if he carry's on may make him rethink his view on you as a soft touch.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 28/02/2017 10:36

The OP's already had the informal chat though. I don't suppose there's any reason to believe he will take it more seriously the second time.