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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To Discipline Colleague?

117 replies

Hesdeadjim · 28/02/2017 09:29

Just need a reaction check really! I have generalized anxiety disorder so I'm not always confident my reactions to things are proportionate. When the below happened I was raging and I want to formally discipline, but I don't know if that's a bit much?

Some details changed to protect identities.

Yesterday one of my direct reports vanished from the office. No pre-arranged holiday, no meetings or anything in my calendar.

At 14:50ish (he vanished at 12) I got a text message saying in these words "By the way, I'm at a doctors appointment if you were wondering why I'm not at my desk"....

Is it just me or is he taking the absolute piss here?

Dr's appointment is fine as long as you let managers know in advance, but he didn't.

Unauthorized absence policy here:

"Any absence from the office that is not communicated properly is unauthorized absence and will be treated as a breach of contract."

That's pretty crystal cut isn't it?

My problem is, because it was a hospital appointment I don't know where I stand from a HR perspective. It wasn't an emergency and had been pre-arranged.

WIBU to take it through formal disciplinary or am I over reacting? Is this standard behavior or do I need to nip this in the bud?

OP posts:
ChicRock · 28/02/2017 09:52

I'd call him in and start with "this is the second time you've left the office without following the company absence policy"... and leave a silence to see what he says for himself.

I'd follow it up in writing, outlining the details of your chat - that it's happened twice, that it's against company policy, the excuses he gave, and that you've explained very clearly that it better not happen again.

Nobody walks out of work and "forgets" to notify anyone that they're going off. Hmm

MidniteScribbler · 28/02/2017 09:52

Second time he's disappeared? Yup, discipline. It's extremely unprofessional behaviour.

Olympiathequeen · 28/02/2017 09:52

I'd speak to him about the unprofessional way he did this and say if it ever happened again it would be taken to HR and made formal.

However if he is a poor worker and generally takes the piss then I would take it there over this.

Original poster
Hesdeadjim · 28/02/2017 09:54

HermioneJeanGranger on his previous episode, he put it in our absence booking system that morning and I don't get the notification for a few hours. So he vanished at lunchtime and I called him to find out where he was. His excuse was "i've booked the afternoon off" Hmm, then when I checked the system, he'd put the request in at 10:41am, then left at 12. The formal proccess is:

Request leave verbally or via email from manager (me!) at least 1 week in advance for 1 days leave, 2 weeks for more than that.

Put it in entire teams calendars

Add to annual leave booking system

Wait for confirmation of approval

All he did was add it to the system not even 2 hours before he left.

It just feels really disrespectful, but that's me being emotional isn't it?

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 28/02/2017 09:55

Perhaps you should discuss your concerns about managing your staff with your line manager or a trusted peer.

Itsnotwhatitseems · 28/02/2017 09:57

Actually Op I think you are well within your rights to give him a written warning for this. I would at the very least inform HR and ask for a meeting with him and get him to read and sign the absence policy to say he understands it. Doing it once for an emergency is one thing but you say he has done this before. A business needs to be able to plan cover for arranged absence and this is unfair of him. It also means other employees will think if he has done it without any consequence then so can they. (HR hat on here)

TondelayaDellaVentamiglia · 28/02/2017 09:57

well, if it's a repeat offence then you need to take proper action...ask HR what's to be done. There is surely some staff handbook/policy to refer to

He'll be off to Marbella next time for a week and hoping no one notices. :o

Original poster
Hesdeadjim · 28/02/2017 09:57

rightsofwomen agreed about the more help thing, CBT is doing wonders, just not quickly!

I've changed details, it's not identifiable and i need a quick sense check without alerting my senior to my raging incompetence as a manager.

My head is barely above water as it is, no need to grab my hair and push me under.

OP posts:
Coralfish · 28/02/2017 09:58

What is the lunch break policy? Did he think he would be back sooner, so was taking it as his lunch break and it just overran?

andontothenext · 28/02/2017 09:58

Why were you mortified?

I'd be asking him if he's ok first of all. If it's out of character then please consider that he might be worried or anxious

IamFriedSpam · 28/02/2017 09:58

Is he generally a good employee (apart from these absence issues)? If so I'd have an informal meeting with him, give him a copy of the procedure for absences tell him he needs to read it every time he's going to be out of the office and follow the protocol exactly (it might be his previous employer was really casual about these things and he didn't realise he needs to follow it to the letter).

If you have doubts about him in general I'd probably add some level of formality to it - a note on his file, verbal warning etc. so that if you need to escalate in the future you have proof that these issues are ongoing and he's had ample warning and opportunity to improve.

Judydreamsofhorses · 28/02/2017 09:58

I think it is a massive over-reaction, even based on his previous absence - he possibly just forgot, or thought he would have the appointment done in his lunchbreak so didn't need to officially book time off. An informal chat and a reminder of the procedure would be fine.

MrsDustyBusty · 28/02/2017 09:58

I think you need to be quite firm and let him know that the next time something of a similar kind happens, there will be serious consequences. Also give him a print out of the leave process and and absence process with an invitation to follow up if it's unclear.

LouKout · 28/02/2017 09:58

if its a second offence obviously a chat didn't work and he needs an official warning.

HermioneJeanGranger · 28/02/2017 09:59

Ah okay, thanks for the clarification :) I've always worked in places where you can't book annual leave into the system without authorising it with a manager first.

No, I don't think you are being emotional. I don't understand why PP's think it's perfectly okay to just waltz out of work whenever you feel like it!

In every job I've ever had, just leaving without permission would be a warning, unless there were extremely extenuating circumstances surrounding it. Twice, and you'd be on a final warning.

I would go for an informal warning or a file note this time, with a warning that if he does it again, it will go further (formal warning).

andontothenext · 28/02/2017 09:59

You sound a bit manic OP.

It's hardly raging incompetence. More like a miscommunication that's easily resolved Confused

Fairyflaps · 28/02/2017 10:00

Do you have an HR department at work who can advise you?

treaclesoda · 28/02/2017 10:02

I'm always amazed when I read employment threads how lenient some employers are. Anywhere I have ever worked this would be an automatic disciplinary, and in some places it would have been gross misconduct. I have always just assumed that all employers would be the same about things like this. I would certainly expect to lose my job if I just disappeared out of the office without telling anyone, even if it was for a hospital appointment.

mouldycheesefan · 28/02/2017 10:05

I work in hr.
Disciplinary, likely verbal warning.
I wouldn't be paying him for the time because he didn't follow procedures.

senua · 28/02/2017 10:05

Is there a Health & Safety aspect to this - if there was a fire evacuation would you know if he was in the building or not.

Original poster
Hesdeadjim · 28/02/2017 10:05

Coralfish sadly not, he didn't return all afternoon.

Ok thanks everyone, going to have a chat with my manager first before I do anything now that I have a better handle on the scale of this :)

For anyone wondering why I asked, GAD makes it very hard to judge how big/ small an issue is because your perspective on things shifts a lot. I'd normally bounce questions like this off my old manager but she's unavailable, hence Mumsnet. The responses I've had here tell me this isn't as big a deal as I felt it was, but still serious enough to raise with him so that's what I'll do. I'll just double check there's nothing HR'y I need to be mindful of before I do :)

Thanks guys!

OP posts:
viques · 28/02/2017 10:06

I think an informal chat is ok, but chat notes to be kept on file and used as evidence for a disciplinary if he does similar again.

Tell him that if he takes time out for medical stuff without prior arrangement that it will be counted as a half day leave. point out that you have already allowed a lot of leeway with his ongoing health needs but that he needs to reciprocate by being upfront and honest.

You have to say and do something, you have a large team, if he is seen to get away with this there will be a day when you come in to an empty echoing office "Hellooooo. where is everybody?"

Roomster101 · 28/02/2017 10:08

I'm always amazed when I read employment threads how lenient some employers are.

I depends on the type of environment you work in and probably on your level of seniority. I certainly wouldn't be disciplined for going to a hospital appointment especially if it had been entered into the system as a day off.

Original poster
Hesdeadjim · 28/02/2017 10:08

andontothenext sadly yes, struggling a lot at the moment, the anxiety is particularly bad and this all came about at a really bad time!

And it's my raging incompetence I was referencing, not his :)

OP posts:
Lilaclily · 28/02/2017 10:09

I work in the public sector and if I just disappeared and then sent my boss a text to say where I was I'd be formally disciplined